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BlueYon

Page Rank 8 and back again

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I have read a few threads in this forum about improving page rank when using osCommerce and I have noticed a few things that nobody has mentioned so far. Here is what I did to get to a page rank of 8 and then lose it in after changing stupidly changing domain names on 2 of my sites.

 

This is what I did:

 

I started out with the standard layout of osCommerce and after months of having no page rank or my site being indexed past the first page I decided to try to fix the problems.

 

I have been using Google AdWords and having to pay for visitors to my site. So far I have been getting around 300 a day which easily is enough to get a page rank.

 

1st I set my site to use safe search engine urls, force cookies and not to create a session ID for spiders. After 1 month this gave me a page rank of 1.

 

2nd I installed the BTS template because it loads pages quicker then the standard osCommerce and also automatically generate the Meta tag information. I particularly like this mode because it sets the links in Google to display the prices at the end. This was not enough though. Any one who has had there site index by Google will know that it will display the first words that Google?s spider will come to on you page. Normally it is Top > Catalog> etc? This is not good so I added the <?php echo META_TAG_TITLE; ?> <?php echo META_TAG_DESCRIPTION; ?> to the top of the page. I then used the style sheet to change the height into 0px and make the words invisible. This worked and when Google index my site again I had a perfect description of my products.

 

3rd Google was still not indexing my pages past 3 layers so I installed a page with links to all my products. Again I used style sheet to hide this from customers but Google?s spiders will still see it. Now from what I have read Google does not like there being more then 100 links on a page. I have over 700 products so I had to split the links page into 8 pages (don?t for get to create back links to you main page). After another month my rank went to 3.

 

4th I linked my 3 duplicate osCommerce sites(for different countries) onto a links page which put my page rank to 4 on my main page but rankings on my other pages was at 3 after another month of waiting. I then decided to put links to all my other sites at the bottom of the pages and again use style sheets to hide it from customers. This then spread my ranking across the rest of the pages.

 

5th I added 1 link to a friend on my links page to people who had a higher page rank then me and got them to link back. After 2 weeks this increased my page rank to 5. After that I went looking for all the sites I could link to with a higher PR. I managed to get over 30 people on my links page which put my ranking to 8 after another month.

 

Anyway, I decided to change my domain names on to of the sites so they would all match up and managed to lose the PR back down to 1. I think the PR will come back again but it will take along time.

 

A few more tricks

 

I have found that using the random new product mod increase?s Google?s spider visits. I have read some where it?s because Google thinks you a have updated the content.

 

Google likes .html extensions. If you are hosting from home change your apache config to include html extensions to run .php code.

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I then used the style sheet to change the height into 0px and make the words invisible. 

 

4th I linked my 3 duplicate osCommerce sites(for different countries) onto a links page  which put my page rank to 4 on my main page but rankings on my other pages was at 3 after another month of waiting. I then decided to put links to all my other sites at the bottom of the pages and again use style sheets to hide it from customers. 

In case someone reads this and takes it as a good thing, you should read Google Guidelines first. Google does not like this and will ban your site if they discover it. Granted, they may not find out. But with proper techniques, this "hiding" is not needed.

 

Anyway, I decided to change my domain names on to of the sites so they would all match up and managed to lose the PR back down to 1. I think the PR will come back again but it will take along time.
Add 301 redirect pages for the changed pages.

 

Google likes .html extensions. If you are hosting from home change your apache config to include html extensions to run .php code.
As mentioned elsewhere in the forums, this doesn't matter anymore. I don't have any html pages and have 67 pages indexed at last count.

 

Jack

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I find it interesting that you had 30 links and ended up with a PR8. How many of these link pages are higher than PR6?

 

I have 38 backward links according to the google toolbar and am sitting at a PR6.

 

Thanks for any further information.

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I then used the style sheet to change the height into 0px and make the words invisible.?

 

4th I linked my 3 duplicate osCommerce sites(for different countries) onto a links page? which put my page rank to 4 on my main page but rankings on my other pages was at 3 after another month of waiting. I then decided to put links to all my other sites at the bottom of the pages and again use style sheets to hide it from customers.?

In case someone reads this and takes it as a good thing, you should read Google Guidelines first. Google does not like this and will ban your site if they discover it. Granted, they may not find out. But with proper techniques, this "hiding" is not needed.

 

Anyway, I decided to change my domain names on to of the sites so they would all match up and managed to lose the PR back down to 1. I think the PR will come back again but it will take along time.
Add 301 redirect pages for the changed pages.

 

Google likes .html extensions. If you are hosting from home change your apache config to include html extensions to run .php code.
As mentioned elsewhere in the forums, this doesn't matter anymore. I don't have any html pages and have 67 pages indexed at last count.

 

Jack

I know about the guidelines, This is called cloaking. I'm not sure it matters as long as the content is the same as what the customers can see. And as far as i know googles spider does not read stylesheets

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Hey Daniel,

 

Good points and I a hve to vote in your favor on the style sheet issue as the SE's se the page basically as html but with tags stripped leaving text so they do indeed see the links while your visitors don't.

 

I like the point you presented about the random products and update page indexes. Nice point and from my studies I'd agree there too.

 

One other thing you might do is move your left and right columns down below your main text by using empty <td>'s. Also wrap your <?php echo HEADING_TITLE; ?> lines in <h1> tags then use the css to make them look right.

 

Congrats on the PR8. Even the PR6 should be supplying a good amount of traffic.

 

Tim


How do you know when you know what you want to do for the rest of your life?

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Hi,

 

My site, Skyline Select Ltd, has no PageRank, and has about 7 or 8 pages that link to it. Not sure about the PageRank these pages have. Have you got any tips on where to get more links, that will improve my PageRank, that I don't have to put the logo on my homepage? As you can see there is quite enough already.

 

Also, how do I make a 301 redirect? Can i make this from .co.uk/ to .co.uk/catalog/ ?

 

Thanks,

 

Iain

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I wondered about the H1 bit - I independently added this to my store yesterday because I recalled reading that search engines give more weight to H1 vs. regiular text, which is how the stock osC would have it.

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I know about the guidelines, This is called cloaking. I'm not sure it matters as long as the content is the same as what the customers can see. And as far as i know googles spider does not read stylesheets

Hmm. maybe I don't understand what it is you are doing. I think you are correct about the stylesheets. Are you hiding your links by setting the text color to the background color or in some other way? And, just out of curiosity, why did you go to the trouble of creating a page for all of your products (the All Products contribution would do this for you BTW) but then did not want the visitor to see them?

 

Jack

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Hi,

 

My site, Skyline Select Ltd, has no PageRank, and has about 7 or 8 pages that link to it. Not sure about the PageRank these pages have. Have you got any tips on where to get more links, that will improve my PageRank, that I don't have to put the logo on my homepage? As you can see there is quite enough already.

 

Also, how do I make a 301 redirect? Can i make this from .co.uk/ to .co.uk/catalog/ ?

 

Thanks,

 

Iain

Actually you have a lot wrong with your set up.

 

I have checked with google how many pages are it has spidered:

 

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site:skyl...1&start=40&sa=N

 

It has only spidered 49 pages

 

I dont think your session id killer for spiders is working. You should try to using force cookies.

 

In your config file change cookies domain to www.skylineselect.co.uk

 

Also dont use a redirect on your main page. Rebember that google only likes to spider 3 layors i think the redirect would count as one.

 

As i mentioned above you should put some words about your site at the top of the page. If the first words google sees when hitting your page is "Top ? Catalog" then that is what will be dispalyed in the description. If you dont want customers to see what you have put use css to hide it. Make these words as <h1> tags and site the hieght in css to 0px.

 

Try to find every free search engine and get your self listed. This is not as easy as it sounds it took me a week of constant searching and waiting to be added. Some wont link to you unless you have a good PR already.

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I wondered about the H1 bit - I independently added this to my store yesterday because I recalled reading that search engines give more weight to H1 vs. regiular text, which is how the stock osC would have it.

<h1> is a good idea I am actually using <h2> but <h1> should be better.

 

This is what I have in my stylesheet.css

 

.hidden {visibility: hidden; font-size:0px;}

 

And this is what you should display at the top

 

<h1 class="hidden">Your description</h1>

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I know about the guidelines, This is called cloaking. I'm not sure it matters as long as the content is the same as what the customers can see. And as far as i know googles spider does not read stylesheets

Hmm. maybe I don't understand what it is you are doing. I think you are correct about the stylesheets. Are you hiding your links by setting the text color to the background color or in some other way? And, just out of curiosity, why did you go to the trouble of creating a page for all of your products (the All Products contribution would do this for you BTW) but then did not want the visitor to see them?

 

Jack

I didn't like the all poducts contribution. I have over 700 product and it was taking to long to load up. I just created a script that would pull a list of aorund 100(1-100, 101-200, etc...) products and then just copied the script 8 times and put links to each script. I made each link a <h2> and put a back link to the main page at at the bottom. You can use what ever method you like.

 

I'm hiddening my links by:

 

.hidden {visibility: hidden; font-size:0px;}

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One other thing you might do is move your left and right columns down below your main text by using empty <td>'s.

This may be counter-productive, depending on your page design. The SE's check for word density and placement of key words in the top of page. They place more importance for text at the top of the page and less for text at the bottom. Adding tables can cause the SE to think that you have useless information at (near) the top of your page and thus lower your rating. Overall, it is a small point, but they do add up.

 

Jack

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Other good methods:

 

Use osCAffiliate v2.0

 

People that join will link to your site. You try to keep commision for sales around 7% which less then what i pay for advertisng anyway.

 

Use Froogle

 

Its free and takes around 2 weeks to get an account. I have noticed my refrerals from Froogle have started to pick up over the last few weeks.

 

Use overture and google adwords.

 

Also I have create an ad tracking script that records the referal url of when only a sale is made. It then strips down the url into the referer and keywords. If anybody wants a copy let me know.

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Hi,

 

My site, Skyline Select Ltd, has no PageRank, and has about 7 or 8 pages that link to it. Not sure about the PageRank these pages have. Have you got any tips on where to get more links, that will improve my PageRank, that I don't have to put the logo on my homepage? As you can see there is quite enough already.

 

You are making a mistake by putting all of your links on your home page.  You should create a link.php file (or whatever you want to call it) and place them all there. 

 

Also, how do I make a 301 redirect? Can i make this from .co.uk/ to .co.uk/catalog/ ?

 

Thanks,

 

Iain

Google has a complex method of calculating PR. To increase your PR, you need to have "quality" links to your site. Basically, this means links from sites that have a PR of 4 or higher and whose product line relates to yours. I don't think having links that don't fit those guidelines will hurt you, but they won't get you where you want to be. So you need to get a large number of linkbacks that fit into your product line somehow. Saying this is really easy - doing it is another thing altogether. ;) One of the best ways is to search for "add url" and some key word. For example, if you sell tools, type the following in google's search box: add url tools. Most sites that provide link swap have this in their key words for their link page so you should find a lot of sites that you can contact.

 

As for the 301, this depends on your host. Some will allow you to make your own page. Mine won't. They gave me an asp script to use for the 301. So you may want to contact your host first. Instead of the redirect, why not just make your main page use the URL http://skylineselect.co.uk/?

 

Jack

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You can do a 301 redirect in a .htaccess with RedirectPermanent.

How do I do this? I have a control panel, and FTP access.

 

nstead of the redirect, why not just make your main page use the URL http://skylineselect.co.uk/?

What? Can you explain this a bit more please.

 

Use Froogle

I can't because I'm UK based. I will when Froogle goes international.

 

Use overture and google adwords.

Will this just increase traffic, or will it increase PageRank aswell?

 

Also I have create an ad tracking script that records the referal url of when only a sale is made. It then strips down the url into the referer and keywords. If anybody wants a copy let me know.

If it's easy to impliment, then I wouldn't mind seeing it.

 

It has only spidered 49 pages

Why do you say only 49 pages? I've not got anywhere near 49 pages, and only got 7 products.

 

Try to find every free search engine and get your self listed. This is not as easy as it sounds it took me a week of constant searching and waiting to be added. Some wont link to you unless you have a good PR already.

It looks like I have a lot of work to... How did this guy get a high PageRank so quick!?

 

As i mentioned above you should put some words about your site at the top of the page. If the first words google sees when hitting your page is "Top ? Catalog" then that is what will be dispalyed in the description. If you dont want customers to see what you have put use css to hide it. Make these words as <h1> tags and site the hieght in css to 0px.

What's thee point in doint this? Who would ever search for you site? They would search for a product, and then get the blurb with the keywords in. Not the site description.

 

If anyone's got anymore help, it will be grately apreciated.

 

 

Iain

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If your web host allows you to create a .htaccess file, do this:

 

Create a text file called .htaccess, with content:

RedirectPermanent /index.html http://skylineselect.co.uk/catalog

 

Upload this to your top-level HTML folder (the one above catalog).

 

Now that I've said this, I want to suggest that this is not a good idea. Search engines prefer to see pages closer to the "root". Assuming that the only thing on your site is your store (and it must be otherwise you wouldn't be asking this), it is far better to simply move all the catalog files and folders to the top level of the site - don't forget to make the appropriate changes in the configure.php files. That's what I did for my store.

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If your web host allows you to create a .htaccess file, do this:

 

Create a text file called .htaccess, with content:

CODE

 

RedirectPermanent /index.html http://skylineselect.co.uk/catalog

 

 

Upload this to your top-level HTML folder (the one above catalog).

 

Now that I've said this, I want to suggest that this is not a good idea. Search engines prefer to see pages closer to the "root". Assuming that the only thing on your site is your store (and it must be otherwise you wouldn't be asking this), it is far better to simply move all the catalog files and folders to the top level of the site - don't forget to make the appropriate changes in the configure.php files. That's what I did for my store.

Thanks for this, it worked perfectly. I don't want to do a root install right now, as I intend on redesigning my site once MS3 comes out. I may consider doing it then, after I have created the new design in /store/.

 

You say search engines prefer to see pages closer to the root? Why is this, and what differance will it have? On rankings etc?

 

 

Iain

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It's something I read somewhere - that SEs consider pages more "relevant" if they're closer to the site root. The difference is probably minor. But in my case, I saw no reason for the extra level.

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You can do a 301 redirect in a .htaccess with RedirectPermanent.

How do I do this? I have a control panel, and FTP access.

You should really contact your host if you are not sure. .htaccess doesn't work on hosts running IIS. And like I said before, they may have a more optimized way of doing it.

 

nstead of the redirect, why not just make your main page use the URL http://skylineselect.co.uk/?

What? Can you explain this a bit more please.

It's simply a matter of copying your files so that everything is moved up two levels and then altering your two configure files to match the change. Takes less than 30 minutes, depending on your connection. Some search engines don't like the added text after the .com. They see this as redirected sites. This is especially true of dmoz and may prevent you from being listed there.

 

Use overture and google adwords.

Will this just increase traffic, or will it increase PageRank aswell?

Overture helps you find keywords for your site. If you are selling cows, you can do a search on overture and find out what the most frequently searched word or phase is in relation to cows. You then use those in your meta tags and on your pages. When someone searches for those words next time, you stand more of a chance of being found.

 

It has only spidered 49 pages

Why do you say only 49 pages? I've not got anywhere near 49 pages, and only got 7 products.

Go to google and type this in the search box:
allinurl:skylineselect.co.uk/catalog/

It will list all of your pages. I just checked your site and there were 40 indexed. However, only a few of them had descriptions which means you are not using meta tags which will keep you down in the rankings..

 

Try to find every free search engine and get your self listed. This is not as easy as it sounds it took me a week of constant searching and waiting to be added. Some wont link to you unless you have a good PR already.

It looks like I have a lot of work to... How did this guy get a high PageRank so quick!?

Partly by unethical means. Be careful if you go this route since a lot of people will take it upon themselves to report your site should they see you doing this and that is someting you really don't want.

 

As i mentioned above you should put some words about your site at the top of the page. If the first words google sees when hitting your page is "Top ? Catalog" then that is what will be dispalyed in the description. If you dont want customers to see what you have put use css to hide it. Make these words as <h1> tags and site the hieght in css to 0px.

What's thee point in doint this? Who would ever search for you site? They would search for a product, and then get the blurb with the keywords in. Not the site description.

The whole point of all of this is to increase your indexing (where you place in the ranking of the search engines). The SE's have a set of rules they follow when they check your site. If you have meta tags with keywords that also match the text on your page, they give that page a better review. Your home page is not the only entry point into your site. This is good since it gives you more of a chance to get noticed. Again, let's say you sell cows. In the meta-description for your home page, you might describe your site as selling the best cows in town. In the meta-description for your specials page you might state that you give discounts to seniors who bring their cows in for service, for example. Now, when someone searches for "cows - best in town," they will see your home page listed. But if they search for cows - senior discounts," they will see your specials page. The more entry points you have, the more of chance that someone will find you with a particular search string. And searching for something is the basis of it all.

 

HTH,

Jack

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Hi BlueYon

whats the difference between your .hidden method and using the Dhtml <DIV class="spiderText">

 

does it have the same effect and will i be penalise?

 

any comments from anyone.

As you all know i'm a newbie to all of this.

 

Thanks in advance! :P

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It's true that the spiders weigh rankings based on where the relevant text is placed on the page (i.e. text near the top, or in H1 format). I've also found that putting the most relevant text in the Title will pull better rankings.

 

I did this by editing catalog/products_info.php as follows:

 

First, add a query near the top (just after the require statements):

//added product name to html title

  $product_info_query = tep_db_query("select pd.products_name from " . TABLE_PRODUCTS . " p, " . TABLE_PRODUCTS_DESCRIPTION . " pd where p.products_status = '1' and p.products_id = '" . (int)$HTTP_GET_VARS['products_id'] . "' and pd.products_id = p.products_id and pd.language_id = '" . $languages_id . "'");

 

  $product_info = tep_db_fetch_array($product_info_query);

 

Then, locate "<title>" and change it to something like

<title><?php $products_info['products_name']; ?></title>

 

That's it.


-Fred

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Doh! :huh: A couple of tweaks...

 

The file is actually product_info.php.

 

And, there should be an "echo" in the <title> line after "<php".

 

Sorry about that folks. :)


-Fred

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Hi BlueYon

whats the difference between your .hidden method and using the Dhtml <DIV class="spiderText">

 

does it have the same effect and will i be penalise?

 

any comments from anyone.

As you all know i'm a newbie to all of this.

 

Thanks in advance! :P

Hi,

 

Sorry i have not been anwsering I didn't know people where still intrested.

 

I would think google would not be able to see the links in the dhtml menu. It can only read normal html links and simple java.

 

I dont think google will penalise for dhtml.

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Do you think putting this in at the top would work at all?

 

<img src="images/pixel_trans.gif" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="Your description!" title="Your description!">

 

Just an idea.

 

 

Iain

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