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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, TomB01 said:

There's just some nagging worries that continue ...

My suggestion;  make a new thread laying out your concerns so that they can be addressed. 

I would prefer that you do that in the club (so that it is easier for me to reply without getting dragged into "drama" that some users like to create, but it's up to you).

Edited by burt

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I would also point out that the original question was not if people should stop updating when they test an update and find it breaks an App (what most of the discussion suggests) but whether, starting now, someone should install 1.0.5.5 or some older version.  It is certainly possible that there are Apps that are broken in 1.0.5.5 that are not broken in 1.0.5.0, but it is not definite that the (unknown) Apps that the asker needs are more broken in 1.0.5.5 than in 1.0.5.0.  And it may be that some of things that that particular shop needs are easier to do in 1.0.5.5 than 1.0.5.0. 

In my opinion, it would be better to start with 1.0.5.5 first and figure out what is and is not possible with that rather than start with the assumption that 1.0.5.0 (or some other version) would be better. 


Always back up before making changes.

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Thank you everyone for your input, it is greatly appreciated, Special props to Burt for giving us Phoenix!

I have made my decision to proceed with my Frozen conversion to 1.0.5.5 and I will list my reasons below:

1. Given the previous slow rate of oscommerce updates, it is great to see active updates with phoenix that are quick and easy to apply, hence to start with the latest 1.0.5.5, even if I take a month while converting my database the updates will be minimal and quick so I wont be left behind.

2. After to doing an update from 2.2 to 2.3.4 upto Frozen, I found that the only modules I ever used were Quick stock update, modified specials (like a quick bulk update for specials), Ckeditor with Linuxuk Pages to edit pages, IP Trap, Store Mode, Honeypot Captcha and the now old Australia Post module (which I no longer use as I have setup zone rates finally.) I used to have alot of addons that were never used and not maintained by the original authors and since I am not a coder, I found it far too difficult to try and make them work. With such a small set of addons, some of which are now drop in without core code edits, along with various site tweaks, the setup process should be quite straightforward and will keep me up to date and secure.

3. Even without the addons listed above, I can still get the store up and running as the core of oscommerce is there, which is to be live and get sales. It is rather interesting to look at my previous store versions and see how bloated I made it with addons that just never got used, and I hope I now have the essentials which will keep me going.

I will be converting my database as per Burts guidelines, doing comparisons between each db table entry exept for the config files then uploading to the new store, then doing configuration.

Again I want to thank everyone for their input, I will hope that this will help other people to make the decision to take the leap as to what will suit them!

Cheers all!

 

On an off topic, I was about to donate to Phoenix pro, but just lost my "real" job as of today due the corona virus, so my apologies Burt, my donation will have to wait until a bit longer.

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8 hours ago, nedragdnuos said:

On an off topic, I was about to donate to Phoenix pro, but just lost my "real" job as of today due the corona virus, so my apologies Burt, my donation will have to wait until a bit longer.

Oh no - so sorry for that.  I hope that your business returns soon.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/22/2020 at 9:00 AM, burt said:

I'm constantly surprised and sometimes astonished at the words that come out of shopowners...

What you guys are implying is that it is too much work to apply a 1 or 2 or 5 or 10 minute upgrade to your shop, because you have used addons that change core code or may break.  Would that be a fair assessment?

I think you're under estimating the pain of a broken shop here...

Upgrades that you publish are excellent, but they don't come with (not saying they should come with) a list of stuff that will break if you install the update.  As another owner said, if a shipping module is just outright broken, a 10 minute upgrade might turn into 1-2 HOURS of missed sales.  And those are hours you don't get back - you still need to do shipping, inventory, payroll, customer service etc.  

In MY experience, being completely honest, upgrades are never 5-10 minutes, but typically 1-2 hours or longer.  My shop is very customized, so don't take this as a complaint.  This is sharing the fact that a small .x upgrade is a BIG deal for owners like myself.  

I'm hopping from frozen to Phoenix and it isn't painless.  Stuff you expect to work just doesn't, and I'm updating/patching most of the things I use on the daily.

I appreciate the move to "Approved Add-Ons", but I think it needs to go farther.  If an add-on is "Approved" it must also mean that is is updated regularly - if it falls 30 days or more behind the current release it must loose its approved status.  This means that users like myself can have confidence that we can upgrade to the latest release, with all approved modules in a timely fashion.

Edited by cdetdi

Two forks diverged in a git, and I— I took the fork traveled by burt, And that has made all the difference.

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Unfortunately, becoming a member of the "club" is not a guarantee that you will stay there and receive "certified" supplements.
The list of these "additions" is also very specific. It is not always possible to find what you need.
So study and get ready to adapt the add-ons you need yourself. Or order such add-ons from coders.


Support forum for osCommerce in russian language - from Ashkelon. Support since 2002.

Best regards,

Fredi

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2 hours ago, cdetdi said:

And those are hours you don't get back - you still need to do shipping, inventory, payroll, customer service etc.

If every shopowner put in 25% the effort/time/money that you do Corey, Phoenix could employ people to perform upgrades and testing.   We'd be golden.

But instead we have 60 businesses who have put into the pot over the last 10 months - subsidising hundreds of other businesses, so there is no money to do much of anything.

And people like the previous poster, who just post utter nonsense.


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Well, you know why he likes him?
He is telling the truth.

:angry:


Support forum for osCommerce in russian language - from Ashkelon. Support since 2002.

Best regards,

Fredi

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I personally have a ton of gratitude for the work and the teaching the coders have done in this forum for years.  I am not a coder, but I have always patched my store myself using the information available on the forums. I've even learned to figure a lot of the stuff out on my own too.  I just took a leap of faith and jumped from 234bs to Phoenix 1.0.5.0. because I like the direction that Phoenix is taking and I needed to move forward.   I am getting the Phoenix core code for free.  A lot of people have worked hard on it and it's still free.  Part of the deal is that I have to learn new stuff.

Yes, folks, it's still free thanks to the coders.

Thanks, to everyone involved in the project!

 

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20 hours ago, bodhizatfa said:

I personally have a ton of gratitude for the work and the teaching the coders have done in this forum for years.  I am not a coder, but I have always patched my store myself using the information available on the forums. I've even learned to figure a lot of the stuff out on my own too.  I just took a leap of faith and jumped from 234bs to Phoenix 1.0.5.0. because I like the direction that Phoenix is taking and I needed to move forward.   I am getting the Phoenix core code for free.  A lot of people have worked hard on it and it's still free.  Part of the deal is that I have to learn new stuff.

Yes, folks, it's still free thanks to the coders.

Thanks, to everyone involved in the project!

I completely agree with that. And this is all thanks to the wonderful people who have created a very important direction in programming - OpenSource. Yes. it’s free and thanks to this, millions of people in the world started using computers and started programming.
Special thanks to Harald Ponce de Leon, who in the late nineties created a real base for e-commerce. There was software before osCommerce, on the basis of which Harald created this wonderful software, which became the parent of many clones and electronic commerce options. Harald created the structure and functionality of the online store. And this structure and functionality remains to this day. osCommerce is not just software. This is a tutorial. We studied on this textbook and many members of the community today have become “coders”. Yes, these are not professional coders, but some Harald students easily work with this software without the help of professionals.
osCommerce is surprisingly stable software. There are many stores that today still work on version 2.2.
What is a Phoenix? This is osCommerce + boodstrap + php7.
What you do with the kernel you all know and understand. A lot of effort has been put into "code corrections", but what do these corrections do? You know.
Sorry for the time and effort that the team spends on useless work. What is added to the functionality? All that is is the rewritten and corrected old modules that were made long ago by us, amateurs and laymen.

Access to the code is severely limited. And we will have to adjust all this on our own. It's good. We continue to study.
I am very grateful to our new teachers. They increase our educational level and make us be coders.
I am very grateful to OpenSource. I am very grateful to them for this!


Support forum for osCommerce in russian language - from Ashkelon. Support since 2002.

Best regards,

Fredi

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20 hours ago, bodhizatfa said:

Yes, folks, it's still free thanks to the coders.

Its not free because of only the coders. Its free because a very limited number of store owners and developers, have invested in the project financially so the coders can keep coding. If everyone subscribed to the theory that nothing is for free and contributed, then the project would be far further forward than it is now. Of the hundreds of users on this forum only a small proportion feel the need to keep the project moving forward whilst others sit back, criticise and moan. If they are not happy why are they using this software? We have no idea, but probably because they get something for nothing that earns them money. We all cannot expect coders to invest their time into a project which is freely given away without being able to at least get a meagre sum for their time work and experience. They could be doing fully paid work if they choose. Nobody works for nothing.

11 minutes ago, Fredi said:

Access to the code is severely limited.

No its not. Everyone can download the code for free from this site or from Github. What people cant get is what they don't deserve. Non contributors get the basic code base, whilst those that contribute get something back for their contribution. Its those that contribute and get the updated code early that are doing all the testing that is required before a release is made to the core files that are available to download from this site, which everyone can download. It really is that simple. Contribute and get rewarded for doing so. Its not difficult. Some should be thankful that they get what they already get. it could and should change in the future. Change the record and stop whining.


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I know what I'm saying. These are not empty words.


Support forum for osCommerce in russian language - from Ashkelon. Support since 2002.

Best regards,

Fredi

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It's sad to see such negativity emanating from certain posters.  The snide comments, the PM messages, the emails, the fake likes.  It's tiresome.


Help shape the future of Phoenix; join the Phoenix Club

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Ban people from the forum and exclude them don't generate good relationship. 

however everyone appreciates the great work the Phoenix team is doing. Perhaps it is time to look for new ways to involve people in the project by changing attitudes. and let's not forget Phoenix saved osc. 


:heart: Community Oscommerce fan :heart: You'll find the latest osC community version here.

 

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21 hours ago, Fredi said:

Access to the code is severely limited. And we will have to adjust all this on our own. It's good. We continue to study.

I was not going to post in this thread again, since I sort of chimed in with the complaints.  However, my complaint was centered around the frequency and speed of updates and my inability to keep up with a live store.   I've since come to the conclusion that as a Phoenix Club member, I'm more directly exposed to the development environment than ever before and that was what was frustrating.  Perhaps back in the day, 99% of us would never have been exposed to that and we were happy to implement major upgrades when they were announced (or not, as the case used to be).  So, I'm trying to find my place, learn along the way, and hope that I can perform the major upgrades when they occur, as in 1.0.6.0, 1.0.7.0, etc.

However, I do not know why anyone would think "Access to the code is severely limited." Perhaps becoming a Supporter allows one access to certain code, but the fund-raising is absolutely necessary for any of it.  The basic Phoenix is still left untouched, consistently updated, and completely transparent.  Meanwhile, there are many add-ons that are universally available and some of the key Phoenix Supporters/Coders take it upon themselves to keep them updated - for free.

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I seems to me that Phoenix  is separating itself from oscommerce code as it is evolving. right now the speed that this is happening, is faster than the shop owners can keep up with the code changes.  the ADDONS  which is one of the main reason for it's originnal success is being neglected.  mainly because of general decline of web stores and popularity of mobile apps. thanks to Burt there is a better chance of keeping with this trend.

as the changes get more settled,  then the addons will catchup.  a large group of add ons were written by shop owners that learned here.  this is no longer going to be the case for a while. 

 

 

 


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The main advantage of OsCommerce is its adaptability to various Internet sales options. Its multilingualism. The ability to create fully functional sites using powerful information content. The ability to adapt different delivery and payment methods specific to different countries of the world.
The second advantage of OsCommerce is its clear and accessible code. This advantage has allowed our community to write thousands of add-ons tailored to the different requirements of store owners.

My dream is that Phoenix will keep the OsCommerce twenty-year tradition and become a worthy continuation of it. I dream that our wonderful codders would hear those people who want use to Phoenix software store.
In this case, the Phoenix will be successful.


Support forum for osCommerce in russian language - from Ashkelon. Support since 2002.

Best regards,

Fredi

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Posted (edited)
On 4/11/2020 at 8:48 PM, 14steve14 said:

Its not free because of only the coders. Its free because a very limited number of store owners and developers, have invested in the project financially so the coders can keep coding. If everyone subscribed to the theory that nothing is for free and contributed, then the project would be far further forward than it is now. Of the hundreds of users on this forum only a small proportion feel the need to keep the project moving forward whilst others sit back, criticise and moan. If they are not happy why are they using this software? We have no idea, but probably because they get something for nothing that earns them money. We all cannot expect coders to invest their time into a project which is freely given away without being able to at least get a meagre sum for their time work and experience. They could be doing fully paid work if they choose. Nobody works for nothing.

No its not. Everyone can download the code for free from this site or from Github. What people cant get is what they don't deserve. Non contributors get the basic code base, whilst those that contribute get something back for their contribution. Its those that contribute and get the updated code early that are doing all the testing that is required before a release is made to the core files that are available to download from this site, which everyone can download. It really is that simple. Contribute and get rewarded for doing so. Its not difficult. Some should be thankful that they get what they already get. it could and should change in the future. Change the record and stop whining.

the concept of open source is created and envisioned as to be FREE  free financially and otherwise. it was created by mostly civil minded progressive developers to level the playing field between have and have-not users of internet. 

SO IN OUR WORLD THERE IS FREE STUFF.   and some of us want to keep this idea alive.

 

 

 

 

Edited by hungryfrank

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3 hours ago, hungryfrank said:

the concept of open source is created and envisioned as to be FREE  free financially and otherwise. it was created by mostly civil minded progressive developers to level the playing field between have and have-not users of internet. 

SO IN OUR WORLD THERE IS FREE STUFF.   and some of us want to keep this idea alive.

I had a big long post to this but saw who replied and just cant be bothered.


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Get the latest Responsive osCommerce CE (community edition) here

It's very easy to over complicate what are simple things in life

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Posted (edited)

Suggest to everyone to read and understand this page; https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html

Quote

Thus, “free software” is a matter of liberty, not price.

It may open your eyes and perhaps encourage you to stop having your business subsidised by the businesses of others.

And just in case any did read that page and still has the same opinion about "financially free", read this;

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#ForFree

Edited by burt

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Posted (edited)

qwertyuio.jpg.a49a3416f276f02047d7742809fdb317.jpg

Feel free to get into an argument "hungryfrank".  Just keep it civil.

Edited by burt

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, burt said:

Feel free to get into an argument "hungryfrank".  Just keep it civil.

https://www.oscommerce.com.     

the price for using the software is in this page. 

Edited by hungryfrank

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