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cdetdi

Time for a Bottom Up Rebuild?

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Gents...and Ladies:

I noticed that my customers now experience the new responsive checkout when selecting express checkout during the checkout process.  As I understand it Instant Update is no longer available.  Digging in more, it seems entire SOAP library that the OsC Paypal Checkout is built on is deprecated and Paypal is slowly removing one feature at a time.

Seeing that the new system "PayPal Checkout with Smart Buttons" seems to be largely brand new code & the legacy features in the OsC PayPal app are going to be useless going forward, is it time to start this from scratch? 

Or....I'm missing something and totally wrong.

Edited by cdetdi

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And what about the rest of the oscommerce team? I see them entering the forum every day but they never upload a PayPal update or other contributions.
It would be great to add it to the next version of the amazing Phoenix, don't you think?


Setting up a new Frozen site with so many nice addons available on the market and waiting to be admitted to Phoenix club!

Community Oscommerce fan :heart:

 

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I totally agree. An E-comerce tool that does not have these means of payment will not be able to compete in the market. Especially in the Chinese (wechat) and Asian markets that have the highest global growth.
Burt and @Harald Ponce de Leon  please integrate these payment methods in future versions of OSC.


Setting up a new Frozen site with so many nice addons available on the market and waiting to be admitted to Phoenix club!

Community Oscommerce fan :heart:

 

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1 hour ago, valquiria23 said:

And what about the rest of the oscommerce team? I see them entering the forum every day but they never upload a PayPal update or other contributions.
It would be great to add it to the next version of the amazing Phoenix, don't you think?

How big do you think this active team of developers is. At the moment its Gary on his own. No Harald nor anyone else as far as I am aware.

If people want these payment modules, get them coded, tested and let those that can add to the core see what you gave done. It may get added if its good enough.


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37 minutes ago, 14steve14 said:

How big do you think this active team of developers is. At the moment its Gary on his own. No Harald nor anyone else as far as I am aware.

I'm not talking about Gary who is the only one who carries OSC on his shoulders. I'm talking about the other team members who are only there to defile.

37 minutes ago, 14steve14 said:

If people want these payment modules, get them coded, tested and let those that can add to the core see what you gave done. It may get added if its good enough.

I don't quite agree with your approach Steve , a person from China who has just installed OSC and does not find a WeChat payment module available, leaves OSC and installs another ecommerce platform. Not having these modules pre-installed from the factory means that more than one billion people (or more) do not use OSC.

You see this issue from another point of view, you who already have an established business should add that module to reach a billion new users.

What I see is what must be be done to enlarge the OSC community.

Best regards

Valqui 

 

 

 

Edited by valquiria23

Setting up a new Frozen site with so many nice addons available on the market and waiting to be admitted to Phoenix club!

Community Oscommerce fan :heart:

 

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@valquiria23 we gave to agree to disagree. People cant wait for someone else to do everything. The so called team (Gary) needs all the help he can otherwise development will stop or slow. He cannot be expected to do everything that everyone wants.  


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@14steve14If I would be H, I will eliminate all the team members (except Burt) and recruit new ones who want to contribute.
For example, there are several members in the forum who write excellent addons that can be incorporated into the basic OSC package installed from the factory.
Everyone can help as they can. Doing market research, testing and informing what is needed is also a way of contributing.

Let's join efforts to move forward, I'm sure we agree on this :)

Edited by valquiria23

Setting up a new Frozen site with so many nice addons available on the market and waiting to be admitted to Phoenix club!

Community Oscommerce fan :heart:

 

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27 minutes ago, valquiria23 said:

Let's join efforts to move forward, I'm sure we agree on this :)

That's what the Phoenix club is used for although not everyone can join. A lot of ideas have come from discussions there.


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30 minutes ago, 14steve14 said:

not everyone can join

Too bad, because we are several that we want to help and contribute. I think it is better to follow the discussions in the general forum so we can all contribute. It is not good to segment the OSC community, we have to unite and not divide.


Setting up a new Frozen site with so many nice addons available on the market and waiting to be admitted to Phoenix club!

Community Oscommerce fan :heart:

 

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You are right there. There are loads of members very few of which are helpers so it could have been, and should have been kept in the open public forum.


REMEMBER BACKUP, BACKUP AND BACKUP

Get the latest Responsive osCommerce CE (community edition) here

It's very easy to over complicate what are simple things in life

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11 hours ago, valquiria23 said:

For example, there are several members in the forum who write excellent addons that can be incorporated into the basic OSC package installed from the factory.

I think the future of Phoenix is making it completely modular so the number of modules in core are minimised making it a strong and stable framework suitable for everyone's needs.
This not only makes updates easier but also makes the production and addition of modules easier. Anyone can produce and update whatever modules they want. Users can install whatever modules they want according to their needs.
I think nobody should expect more and more modules to be included in what would become a 'bloated' core - who will keep them all updated?(rhetorical) This topic highlights the current problem - who is expected to update the Paypal module in core?(rhetorical)

10 hours ago, valquiria23 said:

Too bad, because we are several that we want to help and contribute.

There is nothing to stop anyone from contributing, there is no requirement to be a member of a club to contribute to the community.

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😂 So why is every other successful ecart doing the exact opposite? These days the main carts offer vertualy everthing as a stock install. The thinking here is outdated, the world has moved on. Phoenix either catches up or it will be nothing more than a play thing for a few die hard supporters.

Only a had full of people use it and most of those are just playing with it. Just Google it! Even if it improves to 10,000 sites it will still be a bit player in the market. ecarts are NOT about the code it's about successfully marketing your product. Other understand this and have move the market place to another level.

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This nonsense about the core is used as an excuess again and again. The osC core is meaningless without one click update!

Functionality has nothing to do with the core. It's about how you deliver it to the customer. Fetures can be modules, most are in most carts, but they come with the cart. You dont have to go around begging for them on forums.


 

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I have said for a very long time that the core of oscommerce needs to be fit for today's market. It has to offer the features that are needed in today's harsh selling environment. It has to do everything well. Recently I have been looking for other software as a replacement module for the old Stripe payments was not available and was in the hands of Harald, so was never going to done. There are lots of carts out there, some more popular than others, but all offer standard features not available to oscommerce which are needed to run an ecommerce store and generate sales. This has been known but ignored by those in charge for years, and another thread moaning about what should or should not be included will not have any effect. There is a lot of grounds to be made up and without someone to lead a marketing push, which should generate interest from new developers and new users, then I am afraid that the project will just fizzle out.

There is nothing stopping people creating modules and submitting them to be considered to be put into core, but they have to be coded first to show what they can do and they have to work. Its wrong to expect one person to do it all as much as its wrong for one person to want to do it all.


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I think the marketing / marketability issue raised above is a different issue, caused by the way Phoenix is treated on this website and in cPanelx.

  • Phoenix is the latest working responsive version yet this site is revolves almost entirely around the official version which is dated and frankly, unmarketable. I could not believe that there would be anyone on this forum that maintains a view that the official version is still a marketable product. I would be gobsmacked if there were.
  • New users are offered a demo of the official version only.  Most likely they do not proceed because it is old and non-responsive.
  • New users install osCommerce on cPanelx (or they see the demo there) and then proceed to an alternative shopping cart available from cPanelx that is modern and responsive.

This means we are losing people on our own turf!  It is mind-boggling how ludicrously simple the solution is this but for whatever reason that solution seems to be considered an impossibility. There is no point talking about marketing and marketability when we are scoring own-goals and there is no place to market our own product. Our own stadium is promoting a different team.

On the subject of keeping core simple, one advantage is that the core stays manageable in circumstances where there is a sheer lack of coders dedicated to maintaining and improving it (as evident at GitHub). @burt cannot do everything.

If I understand the vision correctly, it means, building a core code-base that allows coders to build modules without altering core and allowing each coder to focus within their areas of strengths. It also empowers the user to alter layout, content and functionality, without touching core code. Modularity means scalability and opens up possibilities to creating loads of modules.

There is NOTHING stopping anyone from creating modules, whether payment modules or otherwise, or in fact from suggesting changes to core in GitHub. If I could code better,  I would. If everything was loaded into core I would guess we would be in a situation where many of the modules being offered would not be able to be maintained because they would be relegated to the team focused on core.

 

Edited by peterpil19

PROUDLY PASSIONATE PHOENIX SUPPORTER

Full-time I am a C-suite executive of a large retail company in Australia. In my spare time, I enjoying learning about web-design.

Download the latest version of CE Phoenix from gitHub here

Join the Phoenix Club. Become a Phoenix Supporter.  Gain access to special codes and modules and help the project thrive. Read here

 

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40 minutes ago, peterpil19 said:

Phoenix is the latest working responsive version

I beg to differ, Phoenix is just CE (osC 2.3.4.1) with a new name! Was "gold" "edge" "frozen" "defrosted" .....

It's been around for almost 5 years, if it was the solution it would have worked by now. It needs a radical re-think or H needs to bring out V3.0 or as others have said it will just fade into obscurity being used by a few die hard enthusiasts.

I could be proven wrong! I hope I am, maybe the closed door route will work? only time will tell.


 

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Not sure I can agree with that. Phoenix is the latest iteration of osCommerce by any definition. It is much more advanced than 2.3.4.1 considering the changes that have been made to its codebase. Hooks, modular functionality and layout, responsive design, PHP 7+ etc. 

Yes it has been around 5 years and the challenges I outlined above has continued to persist and continues to undermine the launch of each version, yet Gary and others (including you) have continued to support the project to our collective benefit despite homeground disadvantages! That fact 5 years has gone by is an absolute credit to Gary and others.

Just the other day a 75 year old gentleman posted to this forum asking for help. He had installed 2.3.4 and appeared stuck.  I hope not, but I reckon we lost him  (just like we lose many others) when he was told he had installed the wrong version from cPanelx followed by the requisite elaborate explanation to instruct him which version to install and how to go about it. So I come to the forum after installing the official version to be told, don't do that, install the non-official version.  This gentleman was someone who took the time to  actually install osCommerce. As I said, there would be countless others in the market for a cart like osCommerce who are seeing the official dated, non-responsive, demo and choosing an alternative. We never even get a chance to speak to them and it is our own fault.

Just imagine you turn up to a stadium with tickets to watch the official team play.  You present your tickets and get told - yes that is the official team but they are really bad and out of shape. You really should see the other non-official team play, they are younger and much better and you will enjoy it more! You think to yourself - that can't be right so you go watch the official team play and are disappointed. You don't come back again. Why on earth are they selling tickets for the official team and why is the non-official team not the official team?!

There is definitely a sizeable market for this type of shopping cart. Google proves it. The sheer number of websites built on osCommerce and comparable carts proves it. The market is large enough to sustain Phoenix if we fix some fundamental issues like I mentioned above. We do not need millions of members. yes, if we wanted that, things might need to change. But you need to crawl before you walk and right now perhaps crawling is what is needed so we can learn how to walk again. I definitely do not agree that the market is limited to just a few enthusiasts.

Understandably given your tenure and clear passion for osCommerce, you are entitled to feeling jaded. However I hope you continue to support Phoenix with your add ons and passion.

Peter


PROUDLY PASSIONATE PHOENIX SUPPORTER

Full-time I am a C-suite executive of a large retail company in Australia. In my spare time, I enjoying learning about web-design.

Download the latest version of CE Phoenix from gitHub here

Join the Phoenix Club. Become a Phoenix Supporter.  Gain access to special codes and modules and help the project thrive. Read here

 

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46 minutes ago, peterpil19 said:

We do not need millions of members

The market has changed a lot since osC was market leader in it's section. I'm not aware of anyone having milions of users. The market is fragmented and difficult to predict. However it's clear who are the main players now. Yes we can question the market data but it's all we have to work with. True if we look past the top 1 million numbers may change but I think it gives a good picture of whats happening in the market.

I hope you are right i would love to be proven wrong on this.

 

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looked at and tried out WooCommerce and CS-Cart and a few other systems as an alternative to upgrading my 10 year old 2.2-MS2 site. wasted time and money on both, sure they have lots of users but BOY are they much more complicated to use and configure and still lack a lot of what osc has. long story short, back to plugging away at installing (and trying to find current versions) of all the add-ons I have in the old site to get the new version up and running.

If I could suggest 1 thing only to improve osCommerce it would be to fix the market place. search is next to useless, you are better off using google to bring you to the addon page you want. limit results to 2.3 version and you still get tons of apps that are 8+ years old and do not work with edge-frozen-phoenix without major updating but diligent searching will eventually bring to a new version in most cases

1 other thought, documentation for creating addons? to be honest the new modular system is an extensive learning curve for those of us who are oscommerce users from way back but not very proficient coders. current documentation is based on ancient code using phh 5???

Edited by cigarsforless

Jim Bullen - President

The Cigar Hut Group of Companies

 

 

Installed add-ons: (that now need to be upgraded to OSC CE Phoenix)

PWA, MVS, Easy Populate, Dynamic Sitemap, Featured Products, MVS Order Editor, MVS Shipping Estimator, Google XML Sitemap, About Us, Ad Tracker, Address Enhancer, Also Purchased, Backorders, Category Descriptions, Dynamic Meta Tags, Contact Us Email Subjects, Country state Selector, Extra Address Line, Order Number in Email Subject, OSC Affiliate, Product Extra Fields, Review Approval System, Reviews in Product Display, Sold Out, Sold Out (but Displayed), Ultimate SEO URL's, Updated Spiders, Welcome Email Password, Pending Order Email, Who's Online Enhancement, CCGV, Easy Discounts, Customer Comments, Request a Review, Sales Report, plus many many more!

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Sure every user will have own preferences as to what works for them and that's ok. Wordpress which is used for WooCommerce plugin has got to be one of the easiest ones to install and get running. It comes with everythinng you need and a full market place with every plugn you can thinks of. Data import is as simple as picking you csv file and importing it. It can be customised as much or as little as you need.

I'm not a wordpress user but it was intresting to see how simple it was to set up. Everything done from my server cpanel click and install. Full documentation available at fingertips all the way through the install. About 30min and ready to add first product. Not my personal cup of tea but clearly many others like it and find it easy to use or they would not be so popular.

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simple to install, but over complicated in some aspects and be prepared to pay thru the nose for each and every must have add on, basics like ups shipping will set you back 79 bucks if you want live rates, same for usps, fed ex the list goes on and on. much rather support osc and tweak some code myself than pay a grand or 2 a year to woocommerce


Jim Bullen - President

The Cigar Hut Group of Companies

 

 

Installed add-ons: (that now need to be upgraded to OSC CE Phoenix)

PWA, MVS, Easy Populate, Dynamic Sitemap, Featured Products, MVS Order Editor, MVS Shipping Estimator, Google XML Sitemap, About Us, Ad Tracker, Address Enhancer, Also Purchased, Backorders, Category Descriptions, Dynamic Meta Tags, Contact Us Email Subjects, Country state Selector, Extra Address Line, Order Number in Email Subject, OSC Affiliate, Product Extra Fields, Review Approval System, Reviews in Product Display, Sold Out, Sold Out (but Displayed), Ultimate SEO URL's, Updated Spiders, Welcome Email Password, Pending Order Email, Who's Online Enhancement, CCGV, Easy Discounts, Customer Comments, Request a Review, Sales Report, plus many many more!

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😊 WooCommerce is  open-source and PHP just like osC get coding and you can add anything you like to it just as people do in osC.


 

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