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I'm going to ask what might sound like a very stupid question, but can you have responsive without hooks?

I know  you going to ask me why, but it comes down to preference, so can you?

What to do, any directions please to have no hooks?

I still have v2.3.4.1, so why could'nt the same functionality been carried over?

Or even better still have the same as it was, but with responsive?

I'm not attacking anybody just raising the question.

Elroy

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hooks has nothing to do with bootstrap, or responsiveness.

Bootstrap is just the framework used to provide responsiveness.

You could use something else if you wanted to.

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In essence the question is bootstrap without hooks?

Bootstrap is responsive, but that is not the question,  so I'm asking can you have bootstrap installed but have an alternative to hooks?

 

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Posted (edited)

of course you can. All you need to do is link to the bootstrap css and javascript and bootstrap is installed.

Edited by Hotclutch
typo

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1 hour ago, coelroy said:

I still have v2.3.4.1, so why could'nt the same functionality been carried over?

I take it your refering to official 2.3.4.1, The simple answer is yes! Official osC can be made responsive and can be made PHP 7.2 complaint. Look at the partners section and talk to one of the partners. Many have made osC official bootstraped and PHP 7.2 complaint, you will just have to pay for the pleasure or do the work your self.

Alternativly switch to the unofficial BS3 frozen version.


 

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26 minutes ago, coelroy said:

so I'm asking can you have bootstrap installed but have an alternative to hooks?

Hooks is just a way to run and/or display code. It has no affect on the shop other than that, as already mentioned. You can remove that code if you like, though that just makes things harder for you. Plus, any addon that uses hooks would no longer work. That includes quite a few but maybe the most important would be the paypal app. If you plan on using Paypal and you remove the hooks code, then you won't be able to use those modules.

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I believe my answer would be the same as the answer of @Jack_mcs 

Hooks do not add anything "bad".  They allow shopowner and developer to do things easier.  Typical example would be the Paypal App as mentioned in previous post, another example would be my recent PDF thing I made that allows shopowner to attach a PDF to an Order.  

Side Thoughts;

  1. Hooks pre-date osCommerce CE
  2. osCommerce CE mirrors 2.3.4.1 functionality
    - there is (to my correctly remembering) nothing in 2.3.4.1 that is not in CE.

This is a signature that appears on all my posts.  
IF YOU MAKE A POST REQUESTING HELP...please state the exact version
of osCommerce that you are using. THANKS

 
Get the latest Responsive osCommerce CE (community edition) here

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15 hours ago, JcMagpie said:

I take it your refering to official 2.3.4.1, The simple answer is yes! Official osC can be made responsive and can be made PHP 7.2 complaint. Look at the partners section and talk to one of the partners. Many have made osC official bootstraped and PHP 7.2 complaint, you will just have to pay for the pleasure or do the work your self.

Alternativly switch to the unofficial BS3 frozen version.

Noted. Tx.

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15 hours ago, Jack_mcs said:

Hooks is just a way to run and/or display code. It has no affect on the shop other than that, as already mentioned. You can remove that code if you like, though that just makes things harder for you. Plus, any addon that uses hooks would no longer work. That includes quite a few but maybe the most important would be the paypal app. If you plan on using Paypal and you remove the hooks code, then you won't be able to use those modules.

Thank you Jack. As always your comments are appreciated.

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15 hours ago, Hotclutch said:

of course you can. All you need to do is link to the bootstrap css and javascript and bootstrap is installed.

That is a step in the right direction. Thanks.

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Yes, if the customer's browser doesn't have that file cached, it could be ugly. You can always copy the file to your site, and modify the references to it in your store to point to your local copy.

Bootstrap and "hooks" are two entirely separate things. The "CE"/Frozen/Edge versions have both, the official release has neither. Unfortunately, you'll be in for a bit of code editing to either put Bootstrap into the official release (a bad idea anyway, since it still leaves you at PHP 5.4 compatibility) or removing hooks from the CE version (I'm sure that's quite a bit of effort). Wouldn't it so much easier to modify add-ons you want to use, to use hooks (if necessary) rather than modifying the base store to be hookless?


If you are running the "official" osC 2.3.4 or 2.3.4.1 download, your installation is obsolete! Get (stable) Frozenpatches or (unstable) Edge. See also the naming convention and the latest community-supported responsive "Edge" release

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7 minutes ago, MrPhil said:

 You can always copy the file to your site, and modify the references to it in your store to point to your local copy.

Most definitely yes. Thanks.

 

Wouldn't it so much easier to modify add-ons you want to use, to use hooks (if necessary) rather than modifying the base store to be hookless?

Noted, that can be done yes, but on the flip side, do you think in a future version there will be an option to activate or de-activate hooks?

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It's better to link to the cdn. The chances of the cdn being down is probably less than or the same as your site being down. And it's better for performance reasons.

https://getbootstrap.com/docs/4.3/getting-started/introduction/

<link rel="stylesheet" href="https://stackpath.bootstrapcdn.com/bootstrap/4.3.1/css/bootstrap.min.css" integrity="sha384-ggOyR0iXCbMQv3Xipma34MD+dH/1fQ784/j6cY/iJTQUOhcWr7x9JvoRxT2MZw1T" crossorigin="anonymous">
<script src="https://code.jquery.com/jquery-3.3.1.slim.min.js" integrity="sha384-q8i/X+965DzO0rT7abK41JStQIAqVgRVzpbzo5smXKp4YfRvH+8abtTE1Pi6jizo" crossorigin="anonymous"></script>
<script src="https://cdnjs.cloudflare.com/ajax/libs/popper.js/1.14.7/umd/popper.min.js" integrity="sha384-UO2eT0CpHqdSJQ6hJty5KVphtPhzWj9WO1clHTMGa3JDZwrnQq4sF86dIHNDz0W1" crossorigin="anonymous"></script>
<script src="https://stackpath.bootstrapcdn.com/bootstrap/4.3.1/js/bootstrap.min.js" integrity="sha384-JjSmVgyd0p3pXB1rRibZUAYoIIy6OrQ6VrjIEaFf/nJGzIxFDsf4x0xIM+B07jRM" crossorigin="anonymous"></script>

 

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@coelroy

2 hours ago, coelroy said:
Noted, that can be done yes, but on the flip side, do you think in a future version there will be an option to activate or de-activate hooks?
 

While you did say that the desire to not use hooks is a 'preference', as others have already stated, there is no benefit to not use them, but several disadvantages to not use them (such as not being able to use existing (and possibly future) add-ons, like the Paypal app, that do use them). Plus, as I understand it, hooks are used in the core code (at least in the Community Edition).

So, unless you can provide a specific reason to not use them (other than just a 'preference'), I see no reason to include the option to turn them on or off in any future version of osC.

M


Get the latest Responsive osCommerce CE (community edition) here .

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On 4/18/2019 at 8:18 PM, ArtcoInc said:

@coelroy

While you did say that the desire to not use hooks is a 'preference', as others have already stated, there is no benefit to not use them, but several disadvantages to not use them (such as not being able to use existing (and possibly future) add-ons, like the Paypal app, that do use them). Plus, as I understand it, hooks are used in the core code (at least in the Community Edition).

So, unless you can provide a specific reason to not use them (other than just a 'preference'), I see no reason to include the option to turn them on or off in any future version of osC.

M

Granted that this is not the official osc, I'm a bit sceptical of using code that has been changed in it's core.

The mere fact that it's advantageous to use in third party apps such Paypal, shouldn't be the determining factor to use it.

What if any, are their  security concerns?

Now, I'm not implying anything, but at least, according to my humble opinion, do not shove something down somebody's throat, give them options.

 

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On 4/17/2019 at 11:31 AM, Hotclutch said:

of course you can. All you need to do is link to the bootstrap css and javascript and bootstrap is installed.

Uh, in case this is leading anyone astray, it's a lot more than just linking in some .css and .js files. All the display code (.php) needs to be updated to make use of Bootstrap's functionality. The official osC code won't take advantage of anything in Bootstrap.

12 hours ago, coelroy said:

Granted that this is not the official osc, I'm a bit sceptical of using code that has been changed in it's core.

The mere fact that it's advantageous to use in third party apps such Paypal, shouldn't be the determining factor to use it.

What if any, are their  security concerns?

Now, I'm not implying anything, but at least, according to my humble opinion, do not shove something down somebody's throat, give them options.

It may not be official osC, but it's the only game in town. osC is dead, and there will almost certainly never be another official release. The current official release is quite obsolete -- in addition to being non-responsive (fatal in today's market) it only works properly up to PHP 5.4 or so. Official 2.3.4.1 has PHP 7 "deprecated" warnings turned off, but apparently had no other work done to be PHP 7 compliant. You use the Community Edition or you take your ball and go home.

Harald has dropped hints that he's alive and well, but failing to interact with the community in over a year and a half is unacceptable. Even if he is working on a super osC 2.4 or 3.1 to surprise and delight us with, that is unacceptable behavior. Waiting so long between official releases kills the product -- it has to start all over again each time to (re)gain mindshare and acceptance in the ecommerce market. As far as I'm concerned, he's killed osC. Only Gary's unofficial CE releases are keeping it somewhat alive. It's become his personal project.


If you are running the "official" osC 2.3.4 or 2.3.4.1 download, your installation is obsolete! Get (stable) Frozenpatches or (unstable) Edge. See also the naming convention and the latest community-supported responsive "Edge" release

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@coelroy

Can you tell us specifically what it is about hooks that you don't like? Do you see any security concerns in using them? Or, is it something else?

Other than 'just a preference', that is.

M


Get the latest Responsive osCommerce CE (community edition) here .

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10 hours ago, ArtcoInc said:

@coelroy

Can you tell us specifically what it is about hooks that you don't like? Do you see any security concerns in using them? Or, is it something else?

Other than 'just a preference', that is.

M

I believe that I did answer you already.

You seems to be making a case for hooks.

I've got my concerns and I'm not asking for a debate on hooks.

 

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On 4/21/2019 at 6:35 PM, MrPhil said:

Harald has dropped hints that he's alive and well, but failing to interact with the community in over a year and a half is unacceptable. Even if he is working on a super osC 2.4 or 3.1 to surprise and delight us with, that is unacceptable behavior. Waiting so long between official releases kills the product -- it has to start all over again each time to (re)gain mindshare and acceptance in the ecommerce market. As far as I'm concerned, he's killed osC. Only Gary's unofficial CE releases are keeping it somewhat alive. It's become his personal project.

I've only installed official releases.

I get what you saying.

Should you get a hint as to what is happening, perhaps let us know.

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I've noticed that there other e-commerce solutions that hadn't been updated for years now, I think last in 2017.

The one that seems to be updated is PrestaShop, that also have bootstrap, responsive and hooks.

Almost like the informal version of oscommerce.

I guess then that's the norm nowadays.

Nahhh not for me.

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If you don't like what we're doing in the Community Edition (in your words, "shoving stuff down your throat")...then it is simple; stay on the official osCommerce version. 

Official version is still useable, just nowhere near as useable as the Community Edition.  


This is a signature that appears on all my posts.  
IF YOU MAKE A POST REQUESTING HELP...please state the exact version
of osCommerce that you are using. THANKS

 
Get the latest Responsive osCommerce CE (community edition) here

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I read the topic and i still not understand your question.
It looks like you have a problem with hooks.
If you point out to us what is EXACT your problem with it.
Then you might can get an answer that would fit.

YOU are not obligated to use the hooks system.
As you not like it..............
You can propose your idea/concept.

But i expect you cannot as you not give any foundation to avoid using a hook.

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On 4/26/2019 at 4:52 AM, osComMarket said:

I read the topic and i still not understand your question.
It looks like you have a problem with hooks.
If you point out to us what is EXACT your problem with it.
Then you might can get an answer that would fit.

YOU are not obligated to use the hooks system.
As you not like it..............
You can propose your idea/concept.

But i expect you cannot as you not give any foundation to avoid using a hook.

My concerns / gripes has been answered already.

Suffice me to say, I'll rather wait for the official version of oscommerce.

 

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1 hour ago, coelroy said:

Suffice me to say, I'll rather wait for the official version of oscommerce.

I haven't followed this thread so I'm not sure if it is the hooks that bother you or that the CE version is not the official version. If it is the hooks, then they will still be in the next official version since Harald is the one that initially added them and it is very unlikely, probably impossible, that he would remove them from the next version.

If it is that the community version isn't the official one, you should understand that whenever an official version is released, it will take quite a while before it is useful. Based on previously released official versions, it would be a good six months before it would be useable as a live shop. So even if an official version was released today, if may not be useable as a live shop before the next Christmas season. So waiting for an official version would hurt your site far more than switching to the CE version and that should be the most important factor to consider, in my opinion.. Just something to think about.

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