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14steve14

Geo-Blocking Regulation

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I have just been reading about yet more EU Regulations. This time about what they call Geo-blocking.

https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/faq/geo-blocking

It will apply from 3 December 2018.

I have had a quick read and its looks like it another legislation to make sure all websites and services are available to all EU members regardless of where they are in the world. There are loads of sites available so a quick google will find lots of answers. Havent yet found anything that should be applied to a sites code yet, but I bet there is something somewhere.


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So if you're in the EU, you are not supposed to block access by, or otherwise discriminate against, anyone in another EU state? That's reasonable. It doesn't appear to say anything (unless I missed it in a quick read) about blocking by (or of) the outside world. What problems or issues does this raise? Blocking areas which are a chronic spam problem seems like a reasonable exception to the rule (permitted).


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I only really took any notice of this as I block all EU countries from buying my automated downloads. This was done because of the complicated EU regulations on VAT MOSS. Looks like I shall now have to stop selling downloads as the sorting out VAT for all EU countries will cost more in administration costs and time than the downloads create. The other alternative is to have someone re write the downloads system so its not automated and has some manual input somewhere, which is not really what customers want.


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The Regulation applies to all traders offering their goods or services to consumers in the EU, regardless of whether they are established in the EU or in a non-EU country. Therefore, traders established in non-EU countries that operate in the EU are therefore subject to this Regulation.

So, it sounds like this is a worldwide concept if the shopowner sells to anyone in the EU.

As for "real life", if you're outside the EU...what are they going to do about it?  Nix.
So many (non EU) shopowners have ignored the required GDPR stuff..and nothing is being done about that.

From my scan of it...it sounds like if you are targetting EU customers, you have to give all EU customers the same rights and priveleges as someone located in your home country.    So, let us imagine your shop is US...and you post only to the USA & offer a 25% discount if you allow customers to come and pick up from your store in Kalamazoo MI...and someone in the EU (to where you do not post) buys from you... you will have to allow that customer to;

  • complete checkout
  • sort out their own pickup

In reality, who is going to buy from a website that doesn't post abroad?  It's a little different within the EU as country borders are crossed each and every day without let or hindrance - so it is easy for a customer in (say) Belgium to buy from a shop in (say) Netherlands (and arrange a pickup).


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What this Regulation may stop is those awful redirects where you click a link and simply don't know where you're going. 

As well as shops who grab your IP (illegally) and try to geo-locate you (illegally), then point you at their idea of what you want to view. 
Yes, thanks shopowner...I am on holiday in France but want to view your site in English and Dollars...not French and Euros.


This is a signature that appears on all my posts.  
IF YOU MAKE A POST REQUESTING HELP...please state the exact version
of osCommerce that you are using. THANKS

 
Get the latest current code (community-supported responsive 2.3.4.1BS Edge) here

 

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On 10/19/2018 at 10:50 AM, 14steve14 said:

I only really took any notice of this as I block all EU countries from buying my automated downloads. This was done because of the complicated EU regulations on VAT MOSS. Looks like I shall now have to stop selling downloads as the sorting out VAT for all EU countries will cost more in administration costs and time than the downloads create. The other alternative is to have someone re write the downloads system so its not automated and has some manual input somewhere, which is not really what customers want.

So the problem is really not that you want to dump customers, but that handling different countries' taxes (VAT) is just too complicated? Same problem here in the States, where the 45 or so states that charge sales tax all have different ways of doing it. The fix is to harmonize and streamline tax regulations so everyone can play by the same rules. I wouldn't hold my breath on this one. I'm not going to be collecting sales tax for any other state, or VAT or any other tax for outside the US, unless it's made super-simple and fully automatable.

On 10/19/2018 at 10:54 AM, burt said:

So, it sounds like this is a worldwide concept if the shopowner sells to anyone in the EU.

As for "real life", if you're outside the EU...what are they going to do about it?  Nix.
So many (non EU) shopowners have ignored the required GDPR stuff..and nothing is being done about that.

Hey, if someone outside the US wants to pay me a lot of money to fill out customs forms and figure out shipping to East Timbuktu via Dugout Canoe Express, I'll be happy to ship outside the US. Otherwise, forget it. And yes, they have no enforcement powers and can't do anything about it.


If you are running the "official" osC 2.3.4 or 2.3.4.1 download, your installation is obsolete! Get (stable) Frozen or (unstable) Edge. See also the naming convention and the latest community-supported responsive "Edge" release

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On 10/20/2018 at 11:01 PM, MrPhil said:

So the problem is really not that you want to dump customers, but that handling different countries' taxes (VAT) is just too complicated? Same problem here in the States, where the 45 or so states that charge sales tax all have different ways of doing it. The fix is to harmonize and streamline tax regulations so everyone can play by the same rules. I wouldn't hold my breath on this one. I'm not going to be collecting sales tax for any other state, or VAT or any other tax for outside the US, unless it's made super-simple and fully automatable.

Dead right. The administration would cost loads more than I actually receive for these downloads so it seemed pointless. May need to make the system manual and not automatic which would save all the trouble.


REMEMBER BACKUP, BACKUP AND BACKUP

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It's very easy to over complicate what are simple things in life

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I'm puzzled by your assertion that you would make the system manual -- wouldn't you want the computer to take care of figuring the tax crap from start to finish, and all you have to do is sit back and watch the money roll in :) ? I can't even legally do that yet for sales tax in my home state -- we're not supposed to figure taxes by ZIP (postal) Code, because they don't align with the tax jurisdictions. However, that's the only practical way to do it.


If you are running the "official" osC 2.3.4 or 2.3.4.1 download, your installation is obsolete! Get (stable) Frozen or (unstable) Edge. See also the naming convention and the latest community-supported responsive "Edge" release

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If downloads have some manual intervention in their creation they are not covered by the VAT MOSS requirements. So it a file in manually attached to an e-mail, then manually sent, then the regulations can be bypassed as its no longer classed as an electronic service. I could then sell to the whole of the EU with no problems and no discrimination, but I think the best thing to do is to carry on as I am.


REMEMBER BACKUP, BACKUP AND BACKUP

Before installing the official version of oscommerce first look at a responsive version here

It's very easy to over complicate what are simple things in life

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