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osCommerce

The e-commerce.

man this place has really gone straight to hell


dreamscape

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Hi all,

 

You too can become a beliver!!. Just keep posting lots of stuff (either osc related or NOT).

 

Once you have this lable you can be judged a true osc'er who knows it all...

 

cheers,

 

Harald assigned that label in good faith, some have abused it by only posting in general chat or posting nonsense. Some of the original Believers suggested that the posts in the Chit Chat forum not count towards total post count, but that is most likely not possible.

 

And although you are being facetious, my sig for a while was to let people know that although I can answer many questions, I am not an expert on osc and I, as well as others, were and still do, get a large number of PM's from people that don't get answers on the forum.

 

If I don't post an answer, I don't know an answer.

 

Time to go work on some stores and leave the educating of the newbies to others for a while. I have the nuke project, the mall project (maybe) and other projects that I don't need to make public to reinforce the fact that I believe in the theory of Open Source, that I believe in keeping it FREE of charge and that I BELEIVE in the osc team and their dedication and goals.

 

If YOU don't believe in those things, than maybe you should reconsider your own status or label or function in this community.

 

Go find a post in the General or Installation forums and post an answer.....

[no external urls in signatures please, kthanks]

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that I believe in the theory of Open Source, that I believe in keeping it FREE of charge and that I BELEIVE in the osc team and their dedication and goals.

 

Open Source means freedom to do as you please, not freedom as in "free of charge". Read up at http://www.gnu.org/philosophy for more. Some good pages are:

 

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-softwar...or-freedom.html

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

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You too can become a beliver!!. Just keep posting lots of stuff (either osc related or NOT).

 

Once you have this lable you can be judged a true osc'er who knows it all...

 

That is funny, good one. I never liked the word "believer" from day one, it's like a word that a cult would use.

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that I believe in the theory of Open Source, that I believe in keeping it FREE of charge and that I BELEIVE in the osc team and their dedication and goals.

 

Open Source means freedom to do as you please, not freedom as in "free of charge". Read up at http://www.gnu.org/philosophy for more. Some good pages are:

 

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-softwar...or-freedom.htmlhttp://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

 

I know what the licence says, I personally believe in keeping it FREE of charge. I do my reading thank you very much. If everyone took the open source codes, improved it and started charging for them, then there wouldn't be open source in the future would there? Not that was any good anyway. But that's right there are already lots of great improvements to osc htat this community will never see because the developers took the free code, enhanced it and are charging mega bucks for it.

 

You know what though, what goes around comes around.

 

yes, everyone here sells something, and yes, the licencse doesn't exclude you from selling the code once you enhance it, but there are ethics involved to. You benefit from someone else's work and you didn't pay up front for it did you?

 

End of rant. You won't listen anyway. Reading before posting has become a lost art.

[no external urls in signatures please, kthanks]

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I never liked the word "believer" from day one, it's like a word that a cult would use.

 

I guess you would have still said that no matter what word was used as the first forum ranking title..?

 

We're contemplating adding new rankings, any ideas (plus attached posting count total)? :)

:heart:, osCommerce

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Keeping osC free of charge is probably a good move. Although the software is great, I probably wouldn't be using it now if it wasn't distributed for free. I'm starting up a business, and we needed a solution that was extremely cheap and extremely flexible. I will be coding for osC long-term, using it to build our businesses. The application I am developing based on osC will continue to grow and change, and will eventually become a very different beast from the osC project. I could even consider selling the platform to other clients.

 

But you can be darned sure that I will be donating money to the developers to osC, as well as donating code bits here, and helping folks out with their own development. As a programmer, I understand what its like to work on code and what goes in to it. And although I'm getting paid by the hour to develop osC in to something more specific to our needs, we certainly won't forget the people who made it possible to start in the first place.

 

I'm not sure why the developers of osC decided on their free-of-charge model. I think it works nicely, and I hope that anyone making a profit from the use of the software is donating to the cause either financially or code wise. But I think the free-of-charge/donations model can be very successful, because most people will have the moral standard to give back what they have been given. Plus it encourages people to develop. If I had to spend $300 to buy osC, I would be a lot less likely to share my code or contribute. I'd figgure that I had already paid my dues. Pretty much how vBulletin or other similar projects work.

 

osC should have a PayPal donate feature. Unless I am missing it? I know you can donate to the individuals responsible directly, but wouldnt it be better to donate to the osC project, and let the developers split it?

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We're contemplating adding new rankings, any ideas (plus attached posting count total)? :)
"Whiner", judging from many of the recent posts. :wink:

 

But seriously, how about "Moderator". I'm not really up on Robert's Rules of Order, nor do I mean that you are supposed to be following them, but do we get to vote on Kim being a Moderator now or do we have to wait for someone to Sixth or Seventh the nomination. :)

 

P.S. - Yes, I know this is not a democracy.

In olden times the men were made of iron and the ships were made of wood; now it's the other way around. :wink:

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"Whiner", judging from many of the recent posts. :wink:

 

Somehow I don't see that happening when a person on 499 posts all of a sudden gets labelled as "Whiner" on their 500th post :)

 

But seriously, how about "Moderator". I'm not really up on Robert's Rules of Order, nor do I mean that you are supposed to be following them, but do we get to vote on Kim being a Moderator now or do we have to wait for someone to Sixth or Seventh the nomination. :)

 

That's going to be discussed after the forum rules have been updated (might take a while, which is why baby steps are happening now).

:heart:, osCommerce

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I feel like some of the Believers are in some sort of clique. Hence the "Gathering of Believers" thread. Nothing like making people with under 300 posts feel un-welcome. As far as donations go, I tried to donate $10 to Ian Wilson before he was a team member because he helped me out a lot. He said thanks and that he would accept it when he got around to it. Well, he never got around to it. So I donated the $10 to hpdl. Now I know he's extremely busy, and get's hundreds of e-mails a day. But even an autoresponder with "Thanks for supporting osc" would have been nice. Something to look into I guess.

If every member of this board donated $1 to the dev team, that would be over $11,000.00. Don't you think this cart is worth at least a $1????

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You know what though, what goes around comes around.

 

yes, everyone here sells something, and yes, the licencse doesn't exclude you from selling the code once you enhance it, but there are ethics involved to. You benefit from someone else's work and you didn't pay up front for it did you?

 

End of rant. You won't listen anyway. Reading before posting has become a lost art.

Goodness me. All I did was post a couple of URLs!

 

I have never once sold the code - I sell my time in amending the code to make a better looking shop. My client can then do as he wishes with his code that I've created.

 

I've contributed many pieces of script and my time in helping out others including yourself - so I'm not quite sure where your venom comes from.

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I guess you would have still said that no matter what word was used as the first forum ranking title..?
Sarcasm doesn't suit you.

 

We're contemplating adding new rankings, any ideas (plus attached posting count total)? :)

 

"nothing"

team member

administrator

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"nothing"

team member

administrator

 

I agree. Why does anyone need a label unless they are performing some sort of necessary function such as moderating? I think it just divides people in the forum. People start to think that the label actually means something which it really doesn't unless you're a moderator or a team member.

If every member of this board donated $1 to the dev team, that would be over $11,000.00. Don't you think this cart is worth at least a $1????

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Or something like:

 

New Member < 25 posts

Member < 300 posts

SR. Member > 300 posts...

 

Doesn't set people apart as much but still gives you a quick look towards their expertise with the project.

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I dont think there should any labels except for the Core Team, and then if the Core Team wants to assign individuals a label based on their performance.

 

the inherent problem with using labels based on post counts is as follows:

 

1) someone asks 300 questions, cross posts, bumps their posts, etc

2) someone makes 300 snide remarks

3) someone spams the forum 300 times

 

the sole fact that someone has posted x number of times does not indicate whether they have contributed to the project, been rude and sarcastic to people, or simply ask the same question over and over again...

 

my 2 cents... :wink:

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Burt, that wasn't sarcasm. If "Believers" was worded "Purple Elephants" then there'd be an issue with "Purple Elephants" and not "Believers".

 

There is just one rank being assigned at the moment which can play a role on somebodys ego. Not all forum members are criminals though, assigning them ranks is to show appreciation for the time they've spent here.

 

Either more ranks are added to lessen the quality of only one rank (no offence to anyone), or the ranking system is removed.

 

Before we add more ranks to which people will have issues with (ie, the word "Believer"), it would be good to hear ideas from the community members themselves.

 

I think a ranking system is a good idea, those that take it seriously need to chill a little.

:heart:, osCommerce

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I rather like the ability to see the number of posts a person has made ...

 

As to rankings, they are nice in the concept that participation does have a *classification* based on amount of participation.

 

It is a bother, when that participation is cut down because a person not only helps a great deal on the regular forums but also participates a lot on the Chit-Chat so they *must* be trying to earn points that way ... :roll:

 

Most who participate here a lot and most who use the Chit-Chat forum have stated several times and in many ways, remove that forum from counting towards any ranking system. I cannot see anyone having a problem with that.

 

I am not familiar enough with phpBB to know if that is possible, but it sure would eliminate the hassle of *godforbid* someone got too many points for being *chatty* as well as helping on the forums.

 

I always looked at the rankings or number of posts as an indication that someone is alive. 8)

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As far as donations go, I tried to donate $10 to Ian Wilson before he was a team member because he helped me out a lot. He said thanks and that he would accept it when he got around to it. Well, he never got around to it. So I donated the $10 to hpdl. Now I know he's extremely busy, and get's hundreds of e-mails a day. But even an autoresponder with "Thanks for supporting osc" would have been nice. Something to look into I guess.

 

One tip for releasing a web based solution: don't add your email address to the footer :)

 

Thanks for the donation - sorry for not having replied directly.

 

We are all grateful when contributions are made.

:heart:, osCommerce

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Thanks for the donation - sorry for not having replied directly.

 

You're very welcome. I will continue to donate something whenever I set up for myself, or set up an osc cart for someone else that will be used for commercial purposes.

If every member of this board donated $1 to the dev team, that would be over $11,000.00. Don't you think this cart is worth at least a $1????

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Well in the 10+ years that I have been running and participating in online communities, I can tell you that people expect value for their participation. In some communities this is easy such as a game site where you gain levels and power within the game to show the time you have invested. In others such as online forums, it is a little more difficult to convey this except by post count.

 

Now, personally, I don't know much about phpBB but I can tell you a lot about running communities. The idea of turning of post counts for some forums is a good one. The idea of having an area for commercial solicitations and advertising is a good one as well. Allowing a place so that people can advertise their services, goods and such does not lead to additional spam. I just spent 4 years as the Administrator and Community Manager of one of the largest Webmaster Resource related forums on the Internet. During my time there it has evolved into a master resource for over 23,000 people. There are several forums which allow advertising and the level of spam in other forums remained consistant over the years. The key though is to remove the spam as soon as it is seen.

 

While, I am no longer with that community because of a need to move on with my life and a new direction in my career, I still participate there and it will continue to prosper because the new managers (yeah they needed 2 people to replace me) are following the guidelines and foundation that were laid down over the last 4 years. These weren't my policies, they were dictated by the needs of the community and its members. The policies were evolvable so that they could handle any situation that came up. They were developed with input from not only volunteer staff members, the site owners but direct communication with the community itself. And while not everyone agrees with every guideline set forth, we eventually cam to a happy concensus on building an actual community.

 

This site here is in the process of transforming from a simple forum to an actual community. This is why people are complaining. To write them off as whiners or complainers invalidates their opinion and only hurts the formation of a true community. No one is saying we all have to agree on everything but we should at least try to listen to each other and get along at the same time.

 

Building a true community that works to help this project progress will take time and energy. More moderators are probably needed as well as other volunteers to help build the community's foundation. Direct links to core members and their participation is necessary as well. For certain proposals that have been made in this thread, you might need different software as well. Again like I said, I am not very familiar with phpBB and actually dislike the software from user's point of view. However, I am biased in that because I work as sales and support for vBulletin. However, even though I made this offer before, if warranted I would be willing to donate a vBulletin license to this website and I would personally import all the current database information into the vBulletin installation. I know that vBulletin will give the OSC Team the tools they need to build a strong and long lasting community.

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Building a true community that works to help this project progress will take time and energy. More moderators are probably needed as well as other volunteers to help build the community's foundation. Direct links to core members and their participation is necessary as well. For certain proposals that have been made in this thread, you might need different software as well. Again like I said, I am not very familiar with phpBB and actually dislike the software from user's point of view. However, I am biased in that because I work as sales and support for vBulletin. However, even though I made this offer before, if warranted I would be willing to donate a vBulletin license to this website and I would personally import all the current database information into the vBulletin installation. I know that vBulletin will give the OSC Team the tools they need to build a strong and long lasting community.

 

Now that is an offer I do not think should be refused.

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Burt, that wasn't sarcasm. If "Believers" was worded "Purple Elephants" then there'd be an issue with "Purple Elephants" and not "Believers".
Okey dokey :)

 

I think a ranking system is a good idea, those that take it seriously need to chill a little.
Another Forum I am on uses a "coffee" theme, it's kinda fun. latte > mocha > and so on.

 

Why not do a more fun one like that ? Could lighten up some people maybe ?

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Wayne, thanks for the offer.

 

This is something we've been discussing internally (phpbb vs vbulletin vs invisionboard), though is really beside the main focus here of making the forum rules clearer - it may be a different solution but it will be the same people using it.

 

We're going to be setting up the other solutions with the current forum data to play around with - if we do decide to change to another solution, specifically vbulletin, your offer will be gladly taken :)

:heart:, osCommerce

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I feel like some of the Believers are in some sort of clique.  Hence the "Gathering of Believers" thread.  Nothing like making people with under 300 posts feel un-welcome.

 

STOP right there, there were throughout the 150 pages a number of poeple with under 300 posts that popped in and joined in the discussion. that thread was in NO WAY exclusive.

 

It was made to LOOK like it was exclusive by others for some unknown reason.

[no external urls in signatures please, kthanks]

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I feel like some of the Believers are in some sort of clique.  Hence the "Gathering of Believers" thread.  Nothing like making people with under 300 posts feel un-welcome.

 

STOP right there, there were throughout the 150 pages a number of poeple with under 300 posts that popped in and joined in the discussion. that thread was in NO WAY exclusive.

 

It was made to LOOK like it was exclusive by others for some unknown reason.

 

I have never looked at the entire thread but from what I did read it looks like all the popular kids at school getting together and excluding those they feel are beneath them. Even the popular cliques let in an outsider occasionally.

 

That you take such strong offense at this bears this out in my mind.

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