Sale of intangible products. New VAT rules in EU (2015)

[milerwan]

Sorry, both same issue when customer's country is different than shop country, only credit card available.

[inra311]

No idea what is wrong. In my shop, customers can buy from all countries and can pay with every payment method. It worked alright from the beginning. If the payment module instantly switches the order status to 'money received' they get the download link automatically on the checkout_success page, if not - like bank transfer - the status is 'pending', and download is disabled. I manually have to set it on 'money received' when I get the money.

In the downloads config menu, I have downloads and redirect to true, 7 days, 5 trials.

[milerwan]

It's ok in my payment module I have this that blocks the script in case of virtual product :

	  // disable the module if the order only contains virtual products
	  if ( ($this->enabled == true) && ($order->content_type == 'virtual') ) {
		$this->enabled = false;

 

[MrPhil]

16 hours ago, milerwan said:

With this "attibute" for download/virtual item, there is no more shipping address taken into account, only billing address in that case.

Well, you still have to know who the customer is before you can tell them the VAT amount. My point is that VAT has always had to be included in the displayed price -- has that requirement been relaxed recently? Is it now legal to display a price "plus VAT" in any country where VAT is collected? If you don't know where the shopper is (geographically), you don't know the VAT rate is, and an IP address is insufficient to determine the whereabouts of the shopper (not to mention that they may be using a proxy or be out of their country when placing the order). Once you know the billing or shipping address of a signed-on customer (or they've filled out the information as a guest), it's simple to figure any tax rate. I assume that no one wants to require that a potential customer sign up/sign on before they can see prices.

[MrPhil]

OK, being in the US, it figured out that I don't need to pay any VAT. What if I were a French citizen who happened to be on a business trip (or holiday) to the US when I placed the order? Or I was in France, but using a proxy outside the country? Once I gave my billing or shipping address, presumably it would update the VAT to the proper amount, but is it legal for your site to quote one (low) price for display, and increase it at checkout (VAT to be added in)? I would think that at a minimum, I should be able to click on something around the VAT notice to give my country or province (whatever is needed to figure the VAT rate), to display the correct price with VAT. Or have the authorities admitted that it is not practical to show correct VAT on a website (until the shopper takes some action to give their location), and now allow a "without VAT (select your location)" price? In the US, it is customary to display prices sans sales tax, but something similar could be done to update the product display with possible shipping costs and sales tax, given a ZIP Code (postal code), either by manual action by the shopper, or by their signing in.

[milerwan]

About Downloadable products, I realize that my downloadable product stocks are not going down despite orders (!?!)
The stock does not empty, damn.

In my case, it is activation codes that I have but in limited numbers.

Where can I find the code to add decrease of stock in the case of a virtual product sale ?

[milerwan]

It's ok, need to go in checkout_process.php en find this :

// do not decrement quantities if products_attributes_filename exists
        if ((DOWNLOAD_ENABLED != 'true') || (!$stock_values['products_attributes_filename'])) {
          $stock_left = $stock_values['products_quantity'] - $order->products[$i]['qty'];
        } else {
          $stock_left = $stock_values['products_quantity'];
        }

And uncomment like this :

// do not decrement quantities if products_attributes_filename exists
// add stock stock decrease for virtual product bof
//        if ((DOWNLOAD_ENABLED != 'true') || (!$stock_values['products_attributes_filename'])) {
// add stock stock decrease for virtual product eof
          $stock_left = $stock_values['products_quantity'] - $order->products[$i]['qty'];
// add stock stock decrease for virtual product bof
//        } else {
//          $stock_left = $stock_values['products_quantity'];
//        }
// add stock stock decrease for virtual product eof

 

[MrPhil]

5 hours ago, milerwan said:

About Downloadable products, I realize that my downloadable product stocks are not going down despite orders (!?!)
The stock does not empty, damn.

In my case, it is activation codes that I have but in limited numbers.

That's an unusual case (to have downloadable products, but limited quantities like a physical product). The system was written assuming that you have an infinite supply of whatever you're downloading. If you've managed to implement limited quantities, congratulations.

I'm curious as to why you would have limited quantities of a downloadable product. If you have to customize each download (serial number, etc.) rather than being a simple copy, and you do it in a batch process, maybe you can look for a way to automate the customization as the product is sold and put in the download area.

[♥14steve14]

If you need to add something like a license number to each of the products, then you may not need to register for VAT MOSS or the equivalent in your country, as part of the system and sale involves manually adding of something into an email. May be worth looking into.

I also cant see why a download needs to have a set quantity. Its the same file taken from the downloads folder every time surely. Hopefully you do not assign different files to every download of a similar product.

[milerwan]

@MrPhil, @14steve14,

The reason I dispatch "activation codes" for a software which are unique and available in limited number.

[MrPhil]

So, no two products shipped are exactly the same (i.e., are slightly modified for an activation code)? I don't think you need to limit quantities for that... you should be thinking about how to customize each copy as it's put out in the download area, coordinated with the activation code emailed to the customer (if it is, and is not in a document included with the product). Or do you have the same activation code for a given "run" of production? What's the point of that? Site and corporate licenses that can be used across a large number of installations are another issue, but usually will need a central license server to limit the number in use at any one time.

If you're doing this all by hand, and therefore want to limit the number of products sold over a time period so that you don't die of exhaustion, I think that the activation code/license key stuff could be automated. It could certainly keep you from losing customers due to "out of stock".

[milerwan]

7 minutes ago, MrPhil said:

So, no two products shipped are exactly the same (i.e., are slightly modified for an activation code)? I don't think you need to limit quantities for that... you should be thinking about how to customize each copy as it's put out in the download area, coordinated with the activation code emailed to the customer (if it is, and is not in a document included with the product). Or do you have the same activation code for a given "run" of production? What's the point of that? Site and corporate licenses that can be used across a large number of installations are another issue, but usually will need a central license server to limit the number in use at any one time.

If you're doing this all by hand, and therefore want to limit the number of products sold over a time period so that you don't die of exhaustion, I think that the activation code/license key stuff could be automated. It could certainly keep you from losing customers due to "out of stock".

I pay "activation codes" to a provider so I get limited quantities each time.

For me, since it is non-material product it fits into the directive of dematerialized goods.
What do you think ?

[MrPhil]

OK, so your gating factor is a Third Party who has to do something. You can't sell as many as you want, and have this guy keep up with you? That's a shame. Maybe you should ask him about the possibility of him automating his end.

It does sound like "dematerialized goods", "virtual goods", or "intangible products", if all delivery is over the network and nothing is physically delivered.

[inra311]

I got an email  from the authorities a few days ago telling me that from 2019 on I DO NOT HAVE to tax digital downloadable products differently for customers from different EU countries, as I had from 2015 on.
😃

I am not sure if this is new EU law or national law (I am from Germany), at least here In Germany you are freed of this when your company is located in only one EU country, and the downloadable product sales do not exceed 10,000 Euros per year.