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(a subject came up recently in a private conversation)

As a store owner, changing the shopping cart software for your existing store is a major change. Then again, if your cart's software core foundation changes drastically (such as osC v2.3.4 -> v2.4 looks like it is doing), you've got the same issues.

As a shop owner who currently maintains your own store, if osCommerce changes its core foundation (again, as v2.4 looks like it is doing), would you choose to learn the new code structure, or would you be tempted to move to another cart?

Personally, I am comfortable with maintaining my 2.3.4 stores, but I see 2.4 as such a drastic change, I'd consider looking elsewhere.


If you are running the "official" osC 2.3.4 or 2.3.4.1 download, your installation is obsolete! Get the latest community-supported responsive "Edge" release here

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Will be following as I am super interested in both shopowners and non-shopowners point of view on this.


This is a signature that appears on all my posts.  
IF YOU MAKE A POST REQUESTING HELP...please state the exact version
of osCommerce that you are using. THANKS

 
Get the latest current code (community-supported responsive 2.3.4.1BS Edge) here

 

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My deciding factor would be if there is a migration path from old osCommerce to new , being it osCommerce or to alternative cart.

Granted the big changes, some re-learning would be needed either way.

Then the question is , in new oscommerce or alternative cart, if you have the same freedom and easy of making changes at minimal cost.

 


KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON

I do not use the responsive bootstrap version since i coded my responsive version earlier, but i have bought every 28d of code package to support burts effort and keep this forum alive (albeit more like on life support).

So if you are still here ? What are you waiting for ?!

 

Find the most frequent unique errors to fix:

grep "PHP" php_error_log.txt | sed "s/^.* PHP/PHP/g" |grep "line" |sort | uniq -c | sort -r > counterrors.txt

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Posted (edited)

@bruyndoncx Well said, Carine.

The upgrade path is critical! Probably, no other cart will have an easy option to import the data from your old store. Some may claim to, but most likely, it's based on an old version of osC., and still require a lot of manual importation and adjusting.

Edited by ArtcoInc

If you are running the "official" osC 2.3.4 or 2.3.4.1 download, your installation is obsolete! Get the latest community-supported responsive "Edge" release here

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Well, going from old osC to new osC is probably going to be the least work of your options. Usually it's just running .sql script(s) to modify the DB layout, but if you've done a lot of customizing to the program and DB, it may involve a lot of manual work (especially if the old osC is many releases back). Nevertheless, I can't see it being any easier going to any other brand of cart, which will involve at least a conversion/migration process.

I wouldn't worry about DB migration if you're deciding whether to stick with osC (newer version) or go to another cart. It's really more a matter of whether the other cart has features that you need, but osC cannot easily provide. The DB is a nit compared to that.

No one likes having to go through data migration, but you can't stick with an old shop forever. The underlying systems (server, PHP, MySQL, etc.) change over time, and will eventually require you to upgrade to a new version. You can ignore that until crisis time (your host just upgraded from PHP 5.2 to 7.1 and your 2.2MS2 shop keeled over), or you can be proactive and stay up-to-date with regular, comparatively painless, upgrades. Note that you need to keep good records of all changes (add-ons, tweaks, custom work) to your shop, (including why you made a change), to make it easier to replicate function on the new one.


If you are running the "official" osC 2.3.4 or 2.3.4.1 download, your installation is obsolete! Get the latest community-supported responsive "Edge" release

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@MrPhil Thanks, Phil. Concise as always.


If you are running the "official" osC 2.3.4 or 2.3.4.1 download, your installation is obsolete! Get the latest community-supported responsive "Edge" release here

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I thought long and hard about this, as its a dilemma I have faced about a year or more ago, and am starting to think about again. If I have to learn something new, do I go and change to a cart which is being updated and secured on a regular basis, or do you stay with something that is going no where. I looked at other carts, and was sort of persuaded to stay with oscommerce because the community version was actually going somewhere. I liked the idea of the one click modules type thing which not many other carts offered, so as long as what ever happens here next keeps doing that, It would be easier to stay. No real need to learn code and modules make installing easy.

Without knowing where oscommerce is going is so frustrating. Looks like the community version is reaching the end of its progression as Gary wants to make it final. That could be bad news as I can see no where that the next official version is anywhere near ready. Promises have been made and nothing hapens. No new release in years. Not good. I have lots of Garys 28 days of code modules so should be able to get a year or so out of oscommerce before anything really needs to be done. That may be the time to cut and run to something else.


REMEMBER BACKUP, BACKUP AND BACKUP

Before installing the official version of oscommerce first look at a responsive version here

It's very easy to over complicate what are simple things in life

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Interesting debate ... As a shopower I learned myself the skills to maintain and develop code for osCommerce ...  The past 14 years or so I have looked at different carts from time to time (Presta - Magento - osC V3 - Shopify - etc.). For most of them - started a test shop - looked into the code - and especially tried to make an analysis of the eco-system. Believe me - it doesn't get better!

Off course the lack of a roadmap (time table) is killing oSC. If Harald just/only would share his direction and objectives - a lot of community members could do a vast amount of work to bring oSC to a higher level. THANKFULLY @burt started his community edition - he did a massive job.

But - if I understood right - the lack of support from the community (donate money - test - give feedback etc) made Gary decide to stop further development. And that's a shame! As I said - it doesn't get better with a different cart.

osCommerce is the only true Open Source Cart in my opinion/experience. Easy to maintain for different skill levels of coders. Compare this to Magento ... a nightmare in debugging ... You probably end up with a professional that's gonna cost you a lot of money. And they (also) went from V1 to V2 leaving all your extensions useless.

So - off course it's important to look around and keep openminded for different carts. But as long as osC keeps developing - even at a slow / minimal pace - I prefer to stay with osC.

Hope this helps to convince some people to donate @burt so maybe he will reconsider ... just look in Github what he @BrockleyJohn and @wHiTeHat Henry did the past days  https://github.com/gburton/Responsive-osCommerce/pulls

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It's on GitHub, so even if Harald doesn't do anything more, all Gary has to do is act as gatekeeper to include/exclude submitted changes to Edge/Final (or its follow-on). He doesn't even have to lift a finger to code any more, if others are willing to do the heavy lifting. Find something you'd like to change, clone a GitHub copy on your system, code it up, and submit a Pull Request. Development could stay quite active if there's a small group of quality coders with good ideas. It would probably be good to publicly discuss your proposed change first, to avoid the disappointment of a rejected PR after doing the work. If you think you have good ideas but Gary is being a lunkhead in rejecting them ;), fork your own project! Others have already done this.

Note that it would be preferable to have one osC follow-on rather than dozens of competing descendants, to minimize market confusion, but didn't some guy once say, "Let a thousand flowers bloom," (before applying lots of herbicide)? Even better would be community development of the official osC, but who knows what role HPDL is willing to take.


If you are running the "official" osC 2.3.4 or 2.3.4.1 download, your installation is obsolete! Get the latest community-supported responsive "Edge" release

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Running a number of stores on 2.2a for the last 15 years I have just gone through the process of upgrading all to Edge. The process was quite straight forward and with help from the forum was achieved in quite a short time period. Thanks to all who helped :).

I looked at all the options available to me before doing this and I came to the conclusion that osC was still the best option available for open source route.

 

As long as the shop owners appreciate the work done by people who contribute to the code and are willing to help keep it going, I don't see why another 18 years and more should not be achieved.

As users its up to us to get involved and help keep the project moving. Its very tempting to get your store up and running and then take a back seat! I know I've been guilty of that my self in the past.


I'm using the cutting Edge v2.3.4.1 CE:thumbsup::smile:

Get the latest osCommerce Online Merchant Community Bootstrap Edition v2.3.4.1 CE

 

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After a learning on 2.4, I can say it's beautiful to develop an addon with this new osc evolution.
About the current development on 2.3.4 BS, .i don't like because the coding approach on the latest development does no respect inside the syntax and philosophy on 2.x. (use the same time tep_ and Osc_  is no good for the future (be careful don't say the coding and result is not good quality and the new approach of products class for example)  but this only solution can work with the  PHP release.
2.3.4 official will be dead soon with the new php release if HPDL does'nt make nothing about that

My pb is, we have 3 osc version with the different ecosystem and it's no good. What will be the preference in the future about the community ?
2.3.4 official if it comes and it wl not the same than the bs
2.3.4 BS non official with some core different element will be no the same with official release if HPDL decide to go no in the same way ?
2.4 when it arrive a day become the next generation of osc and 2.3.4 / 2.3.4 bs Dead ?

Where we go ?

 


Regards
-----------------------------------------
Loïc

Contact me by skype for business
Contact me @gyakutsuki for an answer on the forum

Tuto for 2.4 :
- How to Display a new page with app
- How to make Header Tags under app APP
- How to make a
boostrap modal with external element

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@Gyakutsuki Where we go is a very good question, but the person that can answer that question is never here. Your guess is as good as anyones where oscommerce is heading, if its heading anywhere. Shame really.


REMEMBER BACKUP, BACKUP AND BACKUP

Before installing the official version of oscommerce first look at a responsive version here

It's very easy to over complicate what are simple things in life

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February 12th 2013.  Over 5 years ago.

http://www.clubosc.com/oscommerce-2-4-intense-work-ongoing-for-30-days.html

I'm trying to find an earlier mention of 2.4...

Let's make it a game...

if anyone can find an earlier than 12/02/2013 mention of 2.4 ... the drinks are on me next time I'm in your home town.

 


This is a signature that appears on all my posts.  
IF YOU MAKE A POST REQUESTING HELP...please state the exact version
of osCommerce that you are using. THANKS

 
Get the latest current code (community-supported responsive 2.3.4.1BS Edge) here

 

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Posted (edited)

@burt  May have found one, but only by a few days.  Dated 9th Feb 2013. I really must get on a do some real work, but the chance of a beer from Gary was too much.

 

 

Edited by 14steve14

REMEMBER BACKUP, BACKUP AND BACKUP

Before installing the official version of oscommerce first look at a responsive version here

It's very easy to over complicate what are simple things in life

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Just found an even earlier one where mark mentions version 2.4 in about post 5 or 6 dated Posted November 21, 2012

 


REMEMBER BACKUP, BACKUP AND BACKUP

Before installing the official version of oscommerce first look at a responsive version here

It's very easy to over complicate what are simple things in life

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Looks like I owe you guys some drinks. 

22/09/2011 -> 2.4 was "in the works" six and a half years ago.

Yet some still cling to the hope of a release sometime soon.


This is a signature that appears on all my posts.  
IF YOU MAKE A POST REQUESTING HELP...please state the exact version
of osCommerce that you are using. THANKS

 
Get the latest current code (community-supported responsive 2.3.4.1BS Edge) here

 

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(trying to get this back on topic ...)

It's been a week, and I had hoped for a little more 'on topic' discussion <sigh>. That said, if I can try to recap what peope have said here ...


1) The cart just needs to work. If a store owner wants to make changes, they need to be easy to make, and at a minimum cost (free is good). One click modules are a good thing. No core changes is a good thing. Easy ... is a very good thing.

2) There needs to be a upgrade path to *easily* move your data from the old store to the new one.

3) There needs to be ongoing support and development. Shop owners don't want to bet their business on an abandoned horse.

4) No one has mentioned the underlying structure. My 'best guess' is that people understand that code structures change with time, and that upgrading (either to a newer version of your existing cart, or to an entirely new cart) will require some effort to learn the new code structure.


What did I miss?


If you are running the "official" osC 2.3.4 or 2.3.4.1 download, your installation is obsolete! Get the latest community-supported responsive "Edge" release here

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@ArtcoInc I consider myself to be an average store owner, and having to learn to code to make minor changes to my older site was the cause of much frustration. I did learn the basics, and have the ability to cut and paste, so most older oscommerce addons were easy to add, and to remove when they didn't work.  This upload and one click turn on idea was possibly the best thing to happen, and it makes adding new features really easy. Its a shame that more coders dont do something similar to Garys 28 days of code thing.

My biggest worry when updating my site has always been the database and its contents. I scares me to death when I have to play around in there. I learnt the hard way that you need to back everything up before making any changes to anything, but have not actually lost any data yet. I did outsource this area last time I updated my store, and will probably do the same again when I update again.

If the BS version of oscommerce didnt happen when it did, I would now be using a different cart software. I fully understand that updates are needed and treat them like a fresh coat of paint to a bricks and mortar store. Its something that needs doing. We dont like doing it, but it has to be done. The easier it can be done the better. I also dont mind paying for something if it does what I want it to. Again my store will need maintenance and if I dont have the time or ability to do it, someone else can and will.

As to the actual code that the store is based on. To me it makes no real difference. It has to work properly. It has to be secure and it really needs to be relatively up to date. I can make a store look pretty. I can make it do what I want it to. What I dont want is to have to pay a brain surgeon just to alter something that could be done easily. Magneto went too far. The code needs to be adaptable with the addition of extra modules. There are some features that are missing from the standard oscommerce code and after years of keeping on that the code base needs to be fit for purpose in todays world, I have given up shouting. The trouble being that whats suitable for my store would not be suitable for others, so as long as addons and modules are available then its no worry.

What oscommerce needs is to attract more developers, but how that happens I have no idea. You just have to look at something like opencart and see the amount of modules that has from respected developers within the community. As Gary has shown above, oscommerce hasnt moved forward in years, and thats not good. People loose interest. People loose heart, and they go else where, but that is what HDPL wanted so thats what people have done. Its no good making promises and breaking them. To be honest I am really surprised that some developers have stayed.

Rant over again.


REMEMBER BACKUP, BACKUP AND BACKUP

Before installing the official version of oscommerce first look at a responsive version here

It's very easy to over complicate what are simple things in life

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Nothing wrong with a good rant :). We need to give feed back good and bad, only then will we get a clear idea of what people think and need. That open and franc discussion will hopefully lead to a more positive involvement by users and development of the software in a direction that achieves what users want.

 

Moving to another shopping cart is always going to be an option to any store owner! Any new software you move to, will have its learning curve and it’s own issues. Open source no matter which one you go for all have benefits and drawbacks (for me the benefits far out-way any drawbacks).

 

OsC Edge is now much better and very usable, however it is playing catch-up. As a stock install it still lacks a lot of features others like OpenCart offer as standard in stock install. No please do not hate on this statement! I use osC Edge and am very happy with Edge and have actively used add-on’s both by updating old ones my self and paying to have other made to my requirements.

 

I installed OpenCart on a test site and had a good hard look at it ( site is still up and running if anyone is interested). If I was a new user I probably would have gone for OpenCart! Its just a better fuller stock experience! However as someone with 15 years of using osC 2.2a, Edge was simply the better (simpler) option!

 

So keeping existing osC users may be easy but attracting new users may prove more challenging.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


I'm using the cutting Edge v2.3.4.1 CE:thumbsup::smile:

Get the latest osCommerce Online Merchant Community Bootstrap Edition v2.3.4.1 CE

 

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@crimble crumble

That is what is needed, but will not happen. When anyone voices dissent, posts get deleted. Over 5 years to get a stable release and update out is beyond a joke. If it were not for a few people taking things and moving it on, the whole project would have stalled and this discussion would not be taking place as we would all be using a new system. Until those in charge actually listen to what shop owners want, and stop removing posts that voice an opinion different to theirs then the project will stall.

Personally I am going to install one more version of the BS version of oscommerce once it reaches final, and I will look elsewhere. There really is no point in staying here on a system that is outdated and the laughing stock of the ecommerce world.


REMEMBER BACKUP, BACKUP AND BACKUP

Before installing the official version of oscommerce first look at a responsive version here

It's very easy to over complicate what are simple things in life

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Posted (edited)

Name a competitive cart out there that's not from a team effort? 6 yrs ago people tell me M was the shiz and I stucked by OSC. The last several eCommerce sites I had launched this year were all M2. Well, OSC is so far behind in every perspective that I am certain that no one man could be its savior. I am a full stack dev so I have a good idea on the amount of work that'd be required. I would help but the way was not clear. I think having that modular framework released could had give OSC a better shot, but it is what it is...

Yeah, you'd cuss a lot in the beginning of your next cart, but soon you'd be cussing for not given some other cart a shot earlier. I chose M2, it is just awesome. Shiz just work right out of the box.

Edited by clustersolutions

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