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14steve14

Just found this on Gary's website. So what happens next?

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Why osCommerce was the king and is now the pauper

For the past decade and more, the users of osCommerce have wanted more say in what happens next, where it goes, how it is. That say was never granted, not once, ever. I fought to get the community a say, and I succeeded. I started a new vision of what osCommerce could be and asked time and time again for the community to pitch in and help to make osCommerce once again punch at it's weight…

What help did I get?

From shopowners

- a few shopowners started helping out until they got enough "shop" to use on their live site, then they disappeared.

– a few shopowners tested bits and pieces, then they disappeared

– one or two great guys, who really got into it, and gave some excellent help.

But mainly, what I got from shopowners was a feeling that I should not be trying to move osCommerce forward, that osCommerce belongs to them and that I, as a mere developer, should ask "how high" when they say "jump". That feeling manifested itself by way of email, private message and even out in the open forum. Well guys – you've lost the chance to have any further say.

From developers

- 1 developer got into the idea and started the admin changes

– a few other developers came up with singular bits and pieces

– lately other developers started to come up with ideas and code

But mainly what I got from developers was even more abuse than shopowners gave. All of the developers who contacted me rely on copy and paste, or adding addons to shopowners sites. Of course with the new osCommerce all that is gone. There is no more amend 50 files to do something incredibly simple, now it's drop in a new mofdule, enter admin and turn it on. The developers are scared that they would lose business. They could not see that these new modules need careful code, and great attention to detail. They could not see that professional people running shops have no problem paying for perfect code. All they could see was that they had to learn new tricks and they did not want to…

As it turns out, the majority of the community is just not interested in a new osCommerce. In return I have no further interest in the community.

My involvement at the forum is over, save for my general duty as a spambuster…I won't be reading any more posts, I won't be replying to posts, I won't be making status updates, I won't be liking content, I won't be starting any more discussion threads.

I won't be spending 1 more minute helping to code the community version of osCommerce.

For me it's over – thanks to a very vocal bunch of shopowners and developers who failed to see to what was right in front of them, a new osCommerce, built by them, for them, with shopowners input from start to finish. As of right now, it's back to how it was; you get what you get when you get it.

Thanks to that handful of great guys for your support over the last 12 months, I do mean that for those who "got it", the discussion threads, the modules, the hooks and all the rest of the cool stuff.

To those "hot air" developers and shopowners who talked much and did nothing – EPIC FAIL – polite golf clap.

I have cut and pasted this directly from Gary's website.

 

I have a simple question. What happens next with oscommerce?

 

Gary put in a lot of work on oscommerce and actually started to move the project forward. It was moving from being a dated project that is not really fit for purpose to being something that could possible be the leader again. He had some good ideas on what should happen and got a few involved. I personally loved the idea of not altering the core code when addons were created. The one time I used this, it was so simple to add something. Whilst I must admit that at times he was not really listening and was a bit heavy handed, what is going to happen to the project now that it looks like he is gone.

 

Hopefully Harald will step up and let everyone know. Should we all be looking towards opencart or some other platform.


REMEMBER BACKUP, BACKUP AND BACKUP

 

Find information about the bootstrap community version here

 

Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

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@@14steve14  Gary has changed the title of the Github repo that integrated Bootstrap into the 234 osC package.  It's now "responsive osCommerce" as opposed to  "osCommerce-234-bootstrap",  A subtle but significant change I'd say.

 

So on top of what you found, I'd say he is moving on.  Since he's been the osC front man for a while now, at least so it appears to me, what happens next with osCommerce itself is a good question.

 

Developers probably can keep on doing their thing with osCommerce 234 for a while because they have the skills to do what they or their clients need.

 

For the shop owners who prefer to self maintain their shops, like the most of us I believe, I think they are in going to have rougher road unless osCommerce gets caught up with what I see on other open source CMS and ecommerce packages.

 

So from a shop owners point of view, if osCommerce is going to be a contender it needs to get up to speed with constantly improving code. responsiveness, easily installed core package updates, easily installed add ons, a shopping mall for add ons that show user ratings and reviews per add on.

 

Gary was taking the lead on tackling at least some of that.  So I'm staying tuned to see what's next.


I am not a professional webmaster or PHP coder by background or training but I will try to help as best I can.

I remember what it was like when I first started with osC. It can be overwhelming.

However, I strongly recommend considering hiring a professional for extensive site modifications, site cleaning, etc.

There are several good pros here on osCommerce. Look around, you'll figure out who they are.

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That sucks

Gary was the future of a new oscommerce and had more depth of knowledge than most of the rest of us combined. - whoever it was/is that fuc#ed it up  - good job! not.

 

like losing Chemo all over again and that took years for osc to get over...  This is not cool.

 

On the other hand, I guess I'm just oblivious to the tone and temperament of the forum of members, I do not fully understand the "why" behind this happening. The letter above almost reads like a grown man having a temper tantrum, though I really don't know what led to this, I can only assume he found the end of his rope over "things"... just a shop owner looking towards the future. 

 

 

Gary, I hope cooler minds will prevail and you will rethink the above and find a new reason to move forward with our support.


-Dave

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That sucks

Gary was the future of oscommerce and had more depth of knowledge than most of the rest of us combined. - whoever it was/is that fuc#ed it up  - good job! not.

 

like losing Chemo all over again and that took years for osc to get over...  This is not cool.

 

According to his post it was not any single person/event, more of a "the drop that spilled the cup" situation.

 

Its a thankless job trying to "please" everybody.

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Its a thankless job trying to "please" everybody.

 

That it is

 

Maybe in part the frustration of overload.   osC bootstrap development, administering the forum.  Then there's running his own business.   That's a lot.  I think he wanted more help from others with the first two.


I am not a professional webmaster or PHP coder by background or training but I will try to help as best I can.

I remember what it was like when I first started with osC. It can be overwhelming.

However, I strongly recommend considering hiring a professional for extensive site modifications, site cleaning, etc.

There are several good pros here on osCommerce. Look around, you'll figure out who they are.

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Part of the problem, (I think the root of all this is ...)
1_ @@Harald Ponce de Leon has not made any official announcement about the excellent version of Gary.
2_ @@Harald Ponce de Leon is gone!
3_ No official announcements nothing!, no news, everything looks abandoned as always ...
4_ Gary asked and received opinions excesses of needs, everyone has their own needs, this frustrated Gary.
5_ Many wanted to help (you can read on the forum) but not being an official version. Many are afraid to invest time in a version that never see the light, the problem is NO RECOGNITION AS THE OFFICIAL ... @@Harald Ponce de Leon!!

@@Harald Ponce de Leon where are you?
@@Harald Ponce de Leon as we solve this?
@@Harald Ponce de Leon die'll leave the last attempt to save oscommerce?

Be Quiet ....

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Nothing has particularly changed other than the fact that I am not going to be giving as much of my free time as I have over the past 18 months.

 

And for those who think this is the fault of anyone else, it is not - please stop blaming others.  It is entirely MY fault for assuming that the whole community wanted what I wanted - a different approach in osCommerce, a new osCommerce rising from the ashes to once again be something awesome.  

 

Anyway, enough of that dream;

 

- Those who are interested will continue to be interested.

- Those who have no interest will continue to have no interest.


This is a signature that appears on all my posts.  It is not specifically aimed at you.

 

IF YOU MAKE A POST REQUESTING HELP...please state the exact version of osCommerce that you are using. THANKS
 
If you are still on the old style osCommerce, it is time to move to Responsive.

 

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@@burt  I think that we did all want a better osCommerce, but we disagreed on exactly what would make it better. If you were trying to please everyone, your frustration is entirely understandable.

 

I would just like to thank you for all the work you've put into this project. I do appreciate the effort, and I wish you well in every thing you do from here on.

 

Regards

Jim


See my profile for a list of my addons and ways to get support.

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@@burt

 

As above.

 

I would like to thank you Gary so much for all your extemely hard and selfless work you have done for oscommerce. I know you have been a tremendous help to me,(and many many) and many othersMy questions were probably to say the least pretty frustrating for you.However you took them in your stride and provided easy to follow answers.

 

On behalf of us (old) bunnies.  Thankyou.

 

Kind regards

Grandpa

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I say that Gary did so much good for oscommerce that he may have more interest in starting his own ecommerce software based on the responsive version that was nearly oscommerce. I for one would support something like that. Do what zencart and many other people have done and go it alone. Improve a failing product and let the other just slowly pass away.

 

Maybe we could start a petition to get Gary to do something like this.


REMEMBER BACKUP, BACKUP AND BACKUP

 

Find information about the bootstrap community version here

 

Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

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Thanks @@burt for what you've done so far with oscommerce. I've participated with my free time in a couple of projects similar to this one (not programming projects of course but free projects) and I know it can be very frustrating pulling in one direction while others argue. Anyway thanks for your work and dedication these months. You've done more in this time than all of the community in several years.

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Not meaning to start a fight here or anything but please @@Harald Ponce de Leon step in and say something, Gary is one of the best team members you ever had. Don't loose him.


~ Don't mistake my kindness for weakness ~

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I say that Gary did so much good for oscommerce that he may have more interest in starting his own ecommerce software based on the responsive version that was nearly oscommerce. I for one would support something like that. Do what zencart and many other people have done and go it alone. Improve a failing product and let the other just slowly pass away.

 

Maybe we could start a petition to get Gary to do something like this.

I thought the same, if you do I support, but could not be programmed to give a monthly donation, which added to the donation of others would enable to move forward.

 

 

Not meaning to start a fight here or anything but please @@Harald Ponce de Leon step in and say something, Gary is one of the best team members you ever had. Don't loose him.

I feel the same, but as always, turns a deaf ear to requests from the community.

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The next should be asap backport to Gary BS repo to the github banch of oscommerce and merge it.

Gary's repo are not familiar with the oscommerce github mainstream now beacause its too far separated from oscommerce.

These facts give obstacles to next release.

Its not a big problem ist only a project but need time for it.

 

You should donate who worked or will work on it.

Harald will push out the next release and we are working on oscommerce again.

This should be the next.

What else?

We all have family or profession and we are not working on every minute on oscommerce.


:blink:

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I feel the same, but as always, turns a deaf ear to requests from the community.

 

Do you know how awesome the team is? Keeping the community running while I attend real life matters.

 

Want the community to remain awesome? Point those harming the community effort to Gary's rant.

 

Keep calm and code on.


:heart:, osCommerce

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Harald you are the owner of the project and as we read on a slide "is personal not business" is that we ask for your statement on the matter, but having no answer is baffling us ... we all have lives and families, but one mint . of your day you can say where and how we ...

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@@Harald Ponce de Leon

What is the point of the community working hard, when nothing it does becomes official. There has been a responsive version available to the community for over a year now, and it has recently been updated, and nothing has been done for the official version. It didn't take the community and especially Gary long to get this sorted, organised and coded, so why the delay from the core team.

 

As has been stated in other posts, developers want to work with the latest official version, but it looks like the project has stopped all developmental work. Announcements in the forum from the core team have stopped and even the official facebook and twitter pages are not updated.

 

If oscommerce is to head forward with the help of the community I think that the community wants something back in return. That is plain from several posts lately on here. That is mainly to be kept up to date with progress. There are so many speculative threads on here, and nothing ever comes from the core team, or those in charge.

 

Oscomerce has lost a good person in Gary, and should be ashamed that it let this happen.


REMEMBER BACKUP, BACKUP AND BACKUP

 

Find information about the bootstrap community version here

 

Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

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Please stop baiting Harald, it's not fair.   

 

This was MY choice to try to get a community version, built by the community for the community - it failed in that format, but continues in a slightly different format.


This is a signature that appears on all my posts.  It is not specifically aimed at you.

 

IF YOU MAKE A POST REQUESTING HELP...please state the exact version of osCommerce that you are using. THANKS
 
If you are still on the old style osCommerce, it is time to move to Responsive.

 

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I agree with what @@burt say's.

 

This has nothing to do with Harald.

Whatever you think must say... say it to Gary aka Burt.


Do you need an osCommerce website? Do you want to have an Responsive osCommerce CONTACT ME as i am for HIRE

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As I see it, @@burt saw a need, and took the initiative to try and satisfy that need. He chose to get the community involved, rather than charging blindly forward on his own. Where some of us saw great value, others apparently saw confusion, or worse, discontent.

 

*All* effort to move the osC community forward helps the entire community. osCommerce is Open Source (that's what the os in osCommerce stands for). As we all contribute, the community all benefits. I can't tell you how much this community has helped me, and my sites.

 

I will continue to support this community, as I will continue to support @@burt. I see value in his work.

 

Malcolm

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.. even the official facebook and twitter pages are not updated.

 

You are absolutely correct. We don't send out email newsletters and our news and social media has trickled down to release announcements only.

 

This is entirely my fault and will work on fixing this.


:heart:, osCommerce

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@@Harald Ponce de Leon

 

Hi Harald! :) How are you? It's been a while...

 

Ooops, sorry that was offtopic.

 

Gary is continuing his work just not the way he did until recently. We lost our vote here in the forum but anyone can fork his github repository and add pull requests so that Gary can look at it and decide "by himself" if this or that gets added or not. We just need to take the "responsive osCommerce" on a as is basis.

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Hmmmmm, quite a ruckus.

 

I'm concerned, as a shops owner, working with osCommerce for as long as I care to remember (growing old...). Concerned for several reasons.

 

We're receiving e-mails from Google all over the place that we have to responsify our shops. Because if we don't our asses will get kicked by lower rankings. Quite a prospect.

 

Concerned also by a distinction between real life matters and osCommerce. For us that distinction does not exist. We have to eat and drink, we have employees working hard to earn their wages. Our online shops are moneymakers. We started using osCommerce getting our toes wet in eCommerce for the first time. We got addicted to it, integrating all kinds of addons to get the shops tailormade to our needs. Linked it to our backoffice software osFinancials. For one to synchronize stock between our physical and virtual shops.

 

We like to continue using osCommerce for eternity, but at the moment are loosing trust in a bright and responsive future of the system, given the current state of affairs. We would like to make an informed decision about whether it is worthwile to await new developments or rather make a fresh start on a new platform. We understand that there is propably no-one to give us that information and it will boil down to a gut decision.    

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