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More talk about the future of osCommerce

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Gary

 

Great post and well needed. I do have a simple question.

 

If I go to the official oscommerce website and click products I see that 2.3.4 is available for download. Which of the two versions mentioned above do I get?


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Regarding: http://forums.oscommerce.com/topic/404711-234-gold-edge-24/

 

 

If you are on the official osCommerce website, you would be downloading the official v2.3.4...

Edited by burt

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I hope everyone else thinks this is confusing. If I search google for oscommerce I would basically end up with an outdated unresponsive version, when there are two newer versions available that I can only download if I join the forums and if I am searching for them, which I wont be because I dont know they exist.

 

Why not persuade those from above to have the responsive gold version as an official release and let many others use the responsive version. It may also get other developers interested and could advance oscommerce further. If this was to happen I and many others would spread the word that there has been a big step taken by oscommerce and its now responsive.

 

So as I understand it there is three versions available, two are responsive and one isn't. Of the two responsive ones, I cannot really see the difference, but I cannot find them anyway. Why not spend time on one version, and stop making new versions for the sake of it. Everyone could then be pushing in the same direction.


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I am not all that interested in new users.  I am more interested in getting existing shopowners on 2.3 updated to 2.3.4® - it is these people who already have a commitment to osCommerce who interest me most, these shopowners then spread the word about it, which gets us new users.

 

I really don't want this thread to turn into another conversation like the last number of threads about the same subject.  It is an information post and should be taken as such.

Edited by burt

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I thought this forum was supposed to be a place where people came to get help and advice on the official version of oscommerce. If you want to create a responsive fork of oscommerce, go and create your own forum and give support there. If its not official, then it should not be here, and you have made the distinct separation of what is available officially and what else is available.

 

Enough said and enough cages rattled.


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No, not enough said.

 

But right now I do not have the time to go into the BS. I will later.


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I am not all that interested in new users.  I am more interested in getting existing shopowners on 2.3 updated to 2.3.4® - it is these people who already have a commitment to osCommerce who interest me most, these shopowners then spread the word about it, which gets us new users.

I agree with Steve. While everyone appreciates the work you are putting into a responsive version, or they should, I think this is the wrong attitude to take regarding new customers. There are many more shops using pre-2.3 versions, in my experience, than those using 2.3. If they upgrade to the official version and then find they have to start all over again to get a responsive shop, it leaves a bad taste in their mouths. I've had more than one long-time client switch to other carts because the other carts were responsive. Unless there is something wrong with the BS version that would keep it from operating properly, I think the best thing to do is to release it as the official version and then release updates to fix any problems, as with all previous versions. A lot of damage is being done to oscommerce, again, in my opinion and based on my experience and client base, with the way it is going right now.

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And we're back...sorry I had to sort out an issue with the core code.

So, over the past decade we have had nothing but complaints about osCommerce, the lack of progress and so on. I was one of those complainants, as were you, as were many many others. Some people left, some people stayed. I left for a few years. When I came back I was amazed to see osCommerce was *still* at 2.2, admittedly within a short while it was at 2.3.

Fast forward 4 years, and I find myself invited onto the Team. That means that I now have a say in which way this ship is steered, the ONLY full-time dev (ie not a shopowner) who does, other than H himself. That puts me in a good position to liason between my own beliefs in what ecommerce is (based on seeing the internals of 100s of live-shops per annum), what osCommerce (the entity, not the software) believes ecommerce is and what shopowners believe ecommerce is...no one else is in such a position.

In the 18 months that I've been involved, what have you seen ? Nothing but forward progress. I am on the Team. I am the team when it comes to 2.3.4[r], no one else on the team has been involved at all. My github is linked from oscommerce.com, therefore it is de-facto an official account.

 

As you (as in the shopowning community) have a team member working on a linked github account, and you have been made aware that the work in 2.3.4[r] is the path to 2.4, does it not make it plain that it is very welcome to be talked about at this forum ?

It takes one person to start to change things, that was me.  Since then I have had nothing but problems from many shopowners and developers who feel they have been done a dis-service somehow.   

 

The community version is just that!  It's put together by the community.  That work will be adopted into the official branch...as it is stellar work done by a small handful of people for the good of everyone.  


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I agree with Steve. While everyone appreciates the work you are putting into a responsive version, or they should, I think this is the wrong attitude to take regarding new customers. There are many more shops using pre-2.3 versions, in my experience, than those using 2.3. If they upgrade to the official version and then find they have to start all over again to get a responsive shop, it leaves a bad taste in their mouths. I've had more than one long-time client switch to other carts because the other carts were responsive. Unless there is something wrong with the BS version that would keep it from operating properly, I think the best thing to do is to release it as the official version and then release updates to fix any problems, as with all previous versions. A lot of damage is being done to oscommerce, again, in my opinion and based on my experience and client base, with the way it is going right now.

 

That is exactly what we are doing.  Releasing it officially as 2.4

In the meantime, we need people like you to have input on the core.  

You are the de-facto SEO expert in this community, yet you have had zero input to any discussion thread in the last 18 months.  Why?

 

New users are not not important, dont get my words out of context => "They are not as important as existing users"


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@@burt I just think that everyone wants 2.3.4BS to be downloadable from the OSC site as the latest official version


Now running on a fully modded, Mobile Friendly 2.3.4 Store with the Excellent MTS installed - See my profile for the mods installed ..... So much thanks for all the help given along the way by forum members.

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That is exactly what we are doing.  Releasing it officially as 2.4

In the meantime, we need people like you to have input on the core.  

You are the de-facto SEO expert in this community, yet you have had zero input to any discussion thread in the last 18 months.  Why?

 

New users are not not important, dont get my words out of context => "They are not as important as existing users"

It's mostly due to a lack of time. While you are concentrating on the next version, as you should be, I, as a developer, need to look at previous versions. So now there are three major versions to develop and maintain addons for. Just managing one is proving too time-consuming for me. Some of my addons haven't been converted to 2.3 yet, much less the BS version, even though I've had requests to do so.

 

As for posting in the discussions on SEO, that, as I understand it, was for Header Tags SEO Reloaded, which is an addon. I generally don't participate in support threads for addons, especially one so closely related to one of my own, but not for any reason other than time. I don't regularly post in the SEO 5 or Sitemap threads either.

 

There is also the matter that I mentioned in another thread of not realizing the BS version was going to be the official version. Up until a few weeks ago I thought it was an addon you were releasing. And since I have my hands full with my own addons, I didn't have the time to work on someone else's. Now that I know that is not the case, I do plan on going through the BS version and will help if I can. Though I can't make it a priority due to other commitments.

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As for posting in the discussions on SEO, that, as I understand it, was for Header Tags SEO Reloaded, which is an addon. I generally don't participate in support threads for addons, especially one so closely related to one of my own, but not for any reason other than time. I don't regularly post in the SEO 5 or Sitemap threads either.

 

That SEO thread was going for weeks and months before reloaded was born.  It was the ideas (made by a number of shopowners) brought up in the thread that led to the creation of the reloaded system.

Edited by burt

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While you are concentrating on the next version, as you should be, I, as a developer, need to look at previous versions. 

 

Can you also explain this comment ?

 

My Team Member status, and my development of osCommerce is done in my spare time.  What do you mean by "should be" ?


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@@burt I just meant that it is your project, or at least, you are controlling it. If you don't work on it, I doubt that much would be done. So if you want it improved upon, you should be working on it. Other should too but you are the force behind it, and one of the ones with the final say, so it mainly falls on you.

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To delete all ambiguities, I think the postion of HPDL must be done. It can clarify all the comments because on official oscommerce branch there is nothing since the oscommerce bootstrap has began. If I remember of HPDL sentence, the OSC BS is not official and the official OSC will based on the work inside OSC BS.

If I follow the HPDL, the official OSC must be little different than OSC BS.

The war is no good, the work inside OSC BS is great, just now HPDL must clarify the position. It can push the OSC BS than new official OSC or can modify some thing for a the release OSC with  the community work.

Edited by Gyakutsuki


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Where has the initial post number 1 gone that Gary wrote. This post was not started by me.


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That post was an info post with no discussion needed.  This thread is split from that post.

Edited by burt

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my view .........

 

Retire versions < 2.3.x from a certain date eg 1 July 2015

 

Release 2.3.4BS "officially" if needs be in parallel to 2.3.4

 

and most importantly stop infighting - its damaging OSC and its contributors.....


Now running on a fully modded, Mobile Friendly 2.3.4 Store with the Excellent MTS installed - See my profile for the mods installed ..... So much thanks for all the help given along the way by forum members.

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@@burt I just think that everyone wants 2.3.4BS to be downloadable from the OSC site as the latest official version

 

When it's ready, it will be.  We have much to do to bring the 2.3 series out of the dark age, but that does not mean it is not usable now...


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When it's ready, it will be.  We have much to do to bring the 2.3 series out of the dark age, but that does not mean it is not usable now...

 

it is as useable if not more so than all the previous releases


Now running on a fully modded, Mobile Friendly 2.3.4 Store with the Excellent MTS installed - See my profile for the mods installed ..... So much thanks for all the help given along the way by forum members.

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Yes, it is far more useable as it is right now, than any other release of osCommerce.

 But we need to do more to make it even more usable and more easier for shopowners.

 

Take for example, adding SEO directly into the Core.  

Would that not be a massive step forward?


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Magical unicorns arguement - some will always say "why release it without this" - have to draw a line somewhere, bite the bullet and release it into the wild..........


Now running on a fully modded, Mobile Friendly 2.3.4 Store with the Excellent MTS installed - See my profile for the mods installed ..... So much thanks for all the help given along the way by forum members.

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@@burt I just think that everyone wants 2.3.4BS to be downloadable from the OSC site as the latest official version

Think and desire the same !!

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At the risk of repeating what others are saying, I am also seeing clients leave osCommerce. They have received that email from Google, or they just want a responsive shop. None of them want an unofficial community version. Telling them that it is the base of the next official release is futile. They want an official version and they will go to whomever provides that. Which is not osCommerce.

 

If you are concerned about the existing osCommerce user base, you're losing that battle.

 

Regards

Jim


See my profile for a list of my addons and ways to get support.

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have to draw a line somewhere, bite the bullet and release it into the wild..........

 

Exactly. No product of any kind can survive if you keep it off the market, to tinker with it and polish it and put a half-dozen more major features in it. Current and potential customers will go elsewhere. At some point you have to decide that it's clean enough and has enough features that customers will buy it. As soon as it's out the door, you get ready to release the next one. None of your releases will be perfect. All will have some rough edges. All will lack features that someone is demanding. But if customers can count on better releases coming out on a reasonably regular basis (you publish a roadmap and stick to it), they'll remain loyal. If they have to wait for years, they'll go elsewhere.

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