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burt

Upcoming Changes

207 posts in this topic

As most of you will know, my aim is to get osCommerce to a place where it can be seen as a competitor to other carts that have grown stronger while we have withered. To do this I need help from the WHOLE community, that means YOU.  Read on.

Upcoming Changes Planned:

1. Plug all pages into the osCtemplate class
1.1 some pages will be Content Modular "cm_"
1.2 most pages will be simpler Template Page "tp_" ((not an ideal) example right now: account.php)

2. Make index.php 100% cm_, requires content modules for - PART DONE
2.1 heading - gary
2.2 welcome guest - gary
2.3 main text - gary
2.4 new products - gary
2.5 upcoming products - gary

2.6 subcategory icons 

2.7 product lists in category pages

3. Make product_info.php 100% cm_, requires content modules for - DONE
3.1 product title - matt
3.2 product price - matt
3.3 gallery - matt
3.4 description - matt
3.5 options - matt
3.6 reviews button - matt
3.7 buy button - matt
3.8 reviews - done
3.9 also purchased - matt

4. Create a Product Class, this class to be used shop-wide to display products data
4.1 class can then be utilised elsewhere eg in addons and modules

5. Plug in SEO as core code
- obvious reasons

5.1 this will add modules to many pages

6. Microdata the hell out of every available page
- good for google

 

7. Move languages out of text files and into database or ini files
 

8.  Update Products to look like it's not the year 2000.

 

9. Bootstrap Installer DONE

 

10. Bootstrap Admin

 

11. Backport v3 Options/Attributes System

 

12. Attribute Sort Order [Priority]

 

 

It is time 

It is time for more developers to step up to the plate and start swinging, so which of you are able to volunteer some time to do any of the above ?  

 

It is time for more shopowners to step up to the plate and help to drive osCommerce forward by spending time to discuss their day to day operations using osCommerce, to test code that is provided and to provide feedback on that code.  
 
Points for Discussion
 
a] what other pages need to be full modular ?

 

b] See "It is time" and if YOU have so far done nothing, ask yourself why.

Edited by burt

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Great news!

 

Only some questions:

In which github repository it is possible to send changes?

 

What will happen to official oscommerce github master branch that has already some code improvements and some pull request that are waiting to be merged?

Edited by acidvertigo

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Hello....

 

First this is meant to be a positive comment from me - so please read it as such....

 

Will this be the 2.4 standard of OSC when completed? If not will it be another #community version that whilst it is developed and supported on the #community forum is not available as an "official" osc download? but lives instead on GitHub

 

Is it not time to bite the bullet and agree that 2.3.4BS is the current "offical" version and that this new development that you plan out above will be the new 2.4BS version the project is aiming towards?

katapofatico likes this

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Is it not time to bite the bullet and agree that 2.3.4BS is the current "offical" version and that this new development that you plan out above will be the new 2.4BS version the project is aiming towards?

 

 

That is exactly the case.  234bs is the development model for 2.4.    There will be no 2.4bs.  It is just 2.4 responsive out of the box.

 

 

Makes sense ?

 

This is why developers are being left behind by shopowners.  We got shopowners doing things with BS that most developers here would have no clue how to do (and I am LOVING the fact that shopowners are pissing on most developers at the moment!!)

 

In the long run, I need help to bring the best code possible more quickly, whether that comes from shopowners or developers, it's all good for me.

Edited by burt
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Great news!

 

Only some questions:

In which github repository it is possible to send changes?

 

What will happen to official oscommerce github master branch that has already some code improvements and some pull request that are waiting to be merged?

 

For all the above listed in the first post: My master.

For all those other tweaks: osCommerce Master.

 

Note that I have full access to both my own (obviously) and osCommerce's Githubs.

 

My development effort is on my/community 234bs as that is the model for 24 as explained above.

 

Makes sense ?

Edited by burt
acidvertigo likes this

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Maybe time for some more bullet biting.......... and Name the DEVs as you see it that you would like to be involved, a public "invite"..... (w00t)

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Maybe time for some more bullet biting.......... and Name the DEVs as you see it that you would like to be involved, a public "invite"..... (w00t)

 

I'm sure that the shop-owning community knows which developers are putting the effort in (or not)...

Edited by burt

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A couple of suggestions:

  • Get rid of the ancient demo products and replace them with current. The first thing I think when I see this is "Wow, it's 1999 again." First impressions count.
  • Put all of the Content module templates in a template directory. This makes it easy to replace the whole thing with another template, and makes it possible to share templates between modules that should look the same (i.e. product listings).

 

I want to help with this, but I have to get my current big client out of the way first. I love osCommerce, but I also love being able to buy groceries....

 

Regards

Jim

ce7 and altoid like this

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This is the first I heard that the BS version will be the official version. It appeared to me, and some others I spoke with, that this was a fork and not officially supported. As such, there's been little interest in it from me since I only support the official code. I think Harold should have stated this was going to be the case since it looked like a personal project. Or maybe he did and I just missed it.

quetevendo likes this

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For all the above listed in the first post: My master.

For all those other tweaks: osCommerce Master.

 

Note that I have full access to both my own (obviously) and osCommerce's Githubs.

 

My development effort is on my/community 234bs as that is the model for 24 as explained above.

 

Makes sense ?

Not to complain, just a suggestion, but it's not more easy to maintain only one official "Master"?

 

For example now the situation is:

Your master: no superglobals, no some code optimization, bootstrap fully implemented, page modules on next level etc.

Oscommerce master: superglobals, some code optimization, bootstrap buggy, shopping cart buggy etc.

 

One master with the goods of this two masters can be a good start to develop with it. Or not?

Edited by acidvertigo

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A couple of suggestions:

    • Get rid of the ancient demo products and replace them with current. The first thing I think when I see this is "Wow, it's 1999 again." First impressions count.

 

Added to the list.

greasemonkey likes this

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I just missed it.

Yes, you did. It was last summer sometime that this was announced.

Edited by burt

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Not to complain, just a suggestion, but it's not more easy to maintain only one official "Master"?

 

For example now the situation is:

Your master: no superglobals, no some code optimization, bootstrap fully implemented, page modules on next level etc.

Oscommerce master: superglobals, some code optimization, bootstrap buggy, shopping cart buggy etc.

 

One master with the goods of this two masters can be a good start to develop with it. Or not?

234bs is where the development effort goes, 24 comes from that.

acidvertigo likes this

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Since 2003 I have made money on the back of osCommerce - I'll be the first to admit that - and I view participation in the forums as being a bit of payback for that - free help for those that seem to need it - I was one of those 'taken for a ride' when Varien sold Magento to PayPal/Ebay after several years of hard work by all in what we thought was going to be a super duper OpenSource cart - that made me question the whole basis for OpenSource development and I will never freely give of my time again to help develop OS code simply as I think the concept is flawed. (However that may just me my age!)

 

The Core Team should work on and release a 'fixed' standard version of osCommerce - GitHub or not, up to them, but get something released and put a big badge on it telling us that it is The Official Version

 

Then try and leave the core code untouched - there's too many small changes floating around that kill previously decent 'add-ons'.

Then revamp the contributions section so that The Official Version has a new shiny 'marketplace' - paid for and free contributions - osCommerce gets a cut of the paid for stuff - developers also can earn $$ and have to support their code.

 

Either that or blow the dust of 3.0 Alpha and get that baby running as it should  - aim for a WordPress type code where the plugins are seamless - as a developer I sell supported plugins for WP-eCommerce and wooCommerce at a steady trickle and maintaining those is fairly simple - get osC running that way and maybe it'll pick up - I don't know.

 

However as a developer I will not get involved in coding core code for anybody any more  - sorry that's just how it is here

discxpress and Psytanium like this

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@@Bob Terveuren thanks for being honest. At least the community now knows how a developer really feels.

 

Your post raises questions;

 

1. how can the "core team" do it all without help from the likes of you, a good dev ?

 

2. how can we (that is those who are willing to help the community) bring code that is bang up to date whilst also ensuring that these (as you call them) `decent` addons dont get killed ?

 

1 more point - for discussion - we have a system in place of addons without touching core code, it's quite flexible actually. But barely any developers know about it as most have not taken the time to get to know it, they code like they always have, amend 5 core pages to do something that can be done 1 non-core module.

ce7 likes this

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@@burt

 

Hi burt

 

Great idea and it seems not before time.

 

One thing, how can folk like me, who have extremely limited knowledge about all this, help. Im sure there must be many others with the same very, very limited knowledge who would love to help. But really dont know how.

Maybe for us if there were some "guidlines" on testing etc. We must be able to help somehow.

 

Kind regards

grandpa

discxpress and ce7 like this

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I not a coder - so I would be of much use in development there... But can certainly give feedback as a shop owner.

 

I think @@kymation point is a very important point. And I'm glad to see it was added to your list @@burt

 

 

Get rid of the ancient demo products and replace them with current. The first thing I think when I see this is "Wow, it's 1999 again." First impressions count.

 

When I read the first line of your post....

 

 

other carts that have grown stronger while we have withered.

 

I would say its not so much as withered (although there were probably a couple of 3 years where this was true... it defiantly not the case any more). OsC, even though 2.3.4BS is on the leading edge of development (which is great news!!!) still "looks" old, out of date and tired.

 

Because I won't be any use on the code side.... I'd be happy to donate a few beers or time - example - to spending an afternoon buying some stock photo's and writing new, relevant descriptions for a new, clean, fresh & CURRENT look.

ce7 likes this

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This is a list to what I think could be added to the list and in general move osc to the same step of competitors:

 

- Admin bootstrapped (big work I know but someone should begin one time GLWalker has started it)

- php 5.4 as minimum as 5.3 is at end of life (5.4 should end it's life on summer)

- cut drastically code duplication (same functions and class files on frontend and admin side are becoming to be unacceptable for a modern web app).

- Multistore support

- IPv6 support

- functions/general.php splitted in several files as it is more easy to manage code inside (actually this file has inside too many functions with too many separated purpose as for example: date, environment, categories, products, security functions are all inside one file)

- Google sitemap

- A orm like (not a complete orm) system of classes that can extract more important data from database, for example product, categories, manufacturers, reviews class. ( syntax like: osc->products->findall(); speeds development)

 

This is a huge work I know, and more core related just to ask what you guys think about those points

Edited by acidvertigo

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id definitely say change those demo products. they are awful!

And the default categories too.

 

I'd use some more modern products and types of products to showcase the responsive look.

 

A point to consider would be to look at how most shops are being designed these days. The index page is almost guarenteed to usually have a massive rotating image banner and perhaps several underneath.

And maybe have the option for guest checkout as a default.

And make the admin responsive.

There is not much missing to be honest for Oscommerce. The look has improved tenfold and other than a few tidbits here and there, it has come on leaps and bounds recently.

 

I might make a list of common types of index pages that a lot of shops use, and perhaps people can take ideas from these, and which are useful.

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I think its a real shame that @@burt is fighting for oscommerce and doing his best to inspire others within these forums to make oscommerce the best, as it once was and he feels that he is on his own. Over the years oscommerce has fallen well behind, where it was once the cart software others used as a base for their products. Something needs to be done, and @@burt needs help. As a community lets give it to him in any way that we can. Coders should code, developers should develop and store owners can test. The latest version seems to be constantly stuck in development and never seems to be progressing although it might be moving behind the scenes.

 

I for one will vote for addons not touching the core code. I recently had the need for some coding to be done on my site and where others failed, Gary came out trumps. He sold me this idea of keeping it simple and that no core code should be changed. He created a simple module that would do what was required. It needed no core code changes and as it was a module, it was so simple to install, even I could do it. If all addons were this simple to install oscommerce would be great.

 

I think there should also be county specific packages made available that will conform to country based legislation. In the UK we have different date and address layouts, we should be showing a VAT number if we are VAT registered, and things like that should be available as a separate package from the core code. Its small thing like that that should make oscommerce the first package of choice. We also have VAT MOSS to deal with.

 

The only other thing that I will say is that if a standard component is included in the core code of oscommerce it must do its job the best it can.Currently as an example is the utterly useless newsletter module. Bin it and come up with something that works for today's standards, or links to something like mailchimp. Some of the backend reporting is almost next to useless, because it does not include the right information that is needed for a store owner to effectively run their store. It may have worked and been good enough all those years ago, but its not now. Its these little things that need changing.

 

Oscommerce needs to do some catching up, and if the forum members can give the core coding team help in any way they can I say lets bring it on. I suppose all us testers can do is wait for the coders to do their jobs first. I will be more than happy to discuss with someone what I think oscommerce needs as basic features if it will help.

Edited by 14steve14

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One thing, how can folk like me, who have extremely limited knowledge about all this, help. Im sure there must be many others with the same very, very limited knowledge who would love to help. But really dont know how.

Maybe for us if there were some "guidlines" on testing etc. We must be able to help somehow.

Get involved in general conversations, it's not all about testing...especially if you're unsure and want to wait for already tested code.

 

In the past 12 months we've had lots of interesting conversations some of which have led to really good code being coded up - the ideas for which came from those involved in the threads...

 

Alternatively, as you use osCommerce on a daily basis, give us ideas on existing code that can be removed, or made better. I'm particularly not asking for a list of addons that you think should be in the core as everyone has their own ideas about that...

 

Answer other peoples questions in the forum - if you can, that would help too.

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Because I won't be any use on the code side.... I'd be happy to donate a few beers or time - example - to spending an afternoon buying some stock photo's and writing new, relevant descriptions for a new, clean, fresh & CURRENT look.

We have to be very very careful here that any images used are able to be distributed as part of a download. I am not sure about the legalities of (a) using images and ( B) what manufacturers would think of their products being used.

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This is a list to what I think could be added to the list and in general move osc to the same step of competitors:

 

- Admin bootstrapped (big work I know but someone should begin one time GLWalker has started it)

- php 5.4 as minimum as 5.3 is at end of life (5.4 should end it's life on summer)

- cut drastically code duplication (same functions and class files on frontend and admin side are becoming to be unacceptable for a modern web app).

- Multistore support

- IPv6 support

- functions/general.php splitted in several files as it is more easy to manage code inside (actually this file has inside too many functions with too many separated purpose as for example: date, environment, categories, products, security functions are all inside one file)

- Google sitemap

- A orm like (not a complete orm) system of classes that can extract more important data from database, for example product, categories, manufacturers, reviews class. ( syntax like: osc->products->findall(); speeds development)

 

This is a huge work I know, and more core related just to ask what you guys think about those points

All of this is excellent ideas, and what we need help with.

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I think its a real shame that @@burt is fighting for oscommerce and doing his best to inspire others within these forums to make oscommerce the best, as it once was and he feels that he is on his own. Over the years oscommerce has fallen well behind, where it was once the cart software others used as a base for their products. Something needs to be done, and @@burt needs help. As a community lets give it to him in any way that we can. Coders should code, developers should develop and store owners can test. The latest version seems to be constantly stuck in development and never seems to be progressing although it might be moving behind the scenes.

 

I for one will vote for addons not touching the core code. I recently had the need for some coding to be done on my site and where others failed, Gary came out trumps. He sold me this idea of keeping it simple and that no core code should be changed. He created a simple module that would do what was required. It needed no core code changes and as it was a module, it was so simple to install, even I could do it. If all addons were this simple to install oscommerce would be great.

 

I think there should also be county specific packages made available that will conform to country based legislation. In the UK we have different date and address layouts, we should be showing a VAT number if we are VAT registered, and things like that should be available as a separate package from the core code. Its small thing like that that should make oscommerce the first package of choice. We also have VAT MOSS to deal with.

 

The only other thing that I will say is that if a standard component is included in the core code of oscommerce it must do its job the best it can.Currently as an example is the utterly useless newsletter module. Bin it and come up with something that works for today's standards, or links to something like mailchimp. Some of the backend reporting is almost next to useless, because it does not include the right information that is needed for a store owner to effectively run their store. It may have worked and been good enough all those years ago, but its not now. Its these little things that need changing.

 

Oscommerce needs to do some catching up, and if the forum members can give the core coding team help in any way they can I say lets bring it on. I suppose all us testers can do is wait for the coders to do their jobs first. I will be more than happy to discuss with someone what I think oscommerce needs as basic features if it will help.

 

Same here, all excellent feedback and ideas. Exactly they type of thing we want to hear and what we need help to achieve...

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Aimed at all, no one in particular;

 

The whole conversation here is not solely about helping to code or test. It's also about getting involved in whatever way you can, be it answering a few questions from noobs each week, getting involved in conversations about the way forward, about seo, about responsive, about 100 other things we've discussed in the past year. I understand that developers and shopowners are busy bee's - I am no less busy but manage to find hours every week to try to move osCommerce forward...now I need the whole community to give more (in terms of time and effort). If we all gave a minimum of 10 minutes per day to answer someones "help me", or to post an interesting link, or to say what you did that we all could learn from, or whatever...the forum would be rocking again.

discxpress and grandpaj like this

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