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Addons Creation and Uploading -discussion-

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 Even though there is a lot of scrap, it's however the wealth of open source that many people contribute something and sometimes at the end really good stuff comes out.

 

This is a point, the freedom of uploading anything, like a big pool. finally with the time, and with some luck, something good will come out

 

We need to make clear here, what the "addon area" is: Is it a playground for people who understand this php stuff, to take the code and develop it further or is it a place where people can download solutions for their store, ready to use?

 

We are lucky in this point, that the code structure as it is now, demand to open files one by one, so we can at least look at the code before "installing". How would;d things be with add ons ala wordpress? In case of a "bad" addon, you click install, confirm, and say goodbye to your half database. Would we not require some checking system in such a - fictional for now - addon installation system?

 

I think that we transfer to much of the responsibility - to install or not some addon - to the end user. This here, the oscommerce addon area - is not a secret/closed developer area. It is a open place where people - shop owners - are coming in to get additional solutions for their store

 

Do they have to be experts in php coding? Do they have to know what "drop table" mean? How much responsibility do the users have and what about osCommerce responsibility to check what is offered on its website? The decision about what to do with the addon area depend on how we answer this question

 

If you ask me, then add ons are solutions for shop owners, not for php experts. The re are platforms for experimental code in development, coders can use that, no need to use the add ons area for that

 

To clean up things, as each journey, we need to start doing the first step. The second and third will follow, there are many great ideas posted here, but we can't arrive anywhere if we don't do a simple first step. And this first step is to ensure a bare minimum of safety for the many osCommerce users

Edited by multimixer

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To add a bureeucratic system to the add-on area is in my opinion a recipe for disaster.

 

To provide a step by step guide asking the developer to upload their contribution in a set format with the a template for the documentation would be a good first step but only if it can be accessed from these 2 pages

 

http://addons.oscommerce.com/

 

and

 

http://addons.oscommerce.com/category/new,package

 

and not hidden away so no one can find it.

 

The layout used by the payment core products is a good start!!!!

 

I like the idea of standard documentation content but be aware if you try to enforce that some developers will just not do it and some excellent and some not so excellent work will be lost.


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Now everyone likes a nice install text but ... (w00t)  rc2 / 2.3 / 2.3.1 .....etc / 2.3.4 /  2.3.4 bootstrap how to keep up with the install text at most it can only be general and one way or another with complicated addons a compare program is needed.

 

Regards

Joli


To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often.

 

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I think that we transfer to much of the responsibility - to install or not some addon - to the end user. This here, the oscommerce addon area - is not a secret/closed developer area. It is a open place where people - shop owners - are coming in to get additional solutions for their store

 

Do they have to be experts in php coding? Do they have to know what "drop table" mean? How much responsibility do the users have and what about osCommerce responsibility to check what is offered on its website? The decision about what to do with the addon area depend on how we answer this question

 

If you ask me, then add ons are solutions for shop owners, not for php experts. The re are platforms for experimental code in development, coders can use that, no need to use the add ons area for that

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Sorry, for some reason I could not edit the post above :blink:

 


I think that we transfer to much of the responsibility - to install or not some addon - to the end user. This here, the oscommerce addon area - is not a secret/closed developer area. It is a open place where people - shop owners - are coming in to get additional solutions for their store
 
Do they have to be experts in php coding? Do they have to know what "drop table" mean? How much responsibility do the users have and what about osCommerce responsibility to check what is offered on its website? The decision about what to do with the addon area depend on how we answer this question


I think this is the philosopy of open source: You can do what you want with the code, but you are yourself responsible for all what you do.
Every shopowner may decide what he/she want: A shopsystem easy to install out of the box - then you may choose a commercial solution you have to pay for. Or an open source system like oscommerce - in its current form only the framework of a shop - which is free of charge but where you have to invest some time and effort to gather information and to familiarize yourself with the basics of such a system. There is no free lunch in life! To put it bluntly, I hate this attitude of some people who get such a free shop system and think that if they need something additional, they would all be served on a silver platter!
End users do not have to be php experts but they have to be ready to learn and they must willing to get involved - for their own thing!
I myself am not a developer or coder and when I set up my first shop system, I had no more idea about php, mysql, JS etc. as of - lets say: the Constitution of the Inner Mongolia. But one can learn what is needed.
 
All this does not mean that improvements to the addon area would not be worth the effort. But when I look at the course of the discussion here, it seems to come down to the implementation of a bureaucratic monster that I am afraid that it leaves an addon area, as fertile as the Gobi Desert.
 
J.J.

Edited by De Dokta

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@@De Dokta, the add-ons area is as @@multimixer mentioned:

 

The bridge between the end-user and the oscommerce dev's and add-on coders.

That place is for THEM (the end-users), and not for US (dev's and add-on coders).

 

The only one's who get's into a bureaucratic monster are the add-on coders.

However, if they follow a SIMPLE guide line, one that makes 100% sense (keep a clean structure), there is no problem at all.

Submitting add-ons is not for end-users, if such end-user decide to take that turn by providing an add-on, he has to adapt and follow the rules, just like anyone else.

 

My previous post:

 

add-on status : Experimental.
add-on status:  Voted     (means, enough peep d/l it, use it WANT/NEED it).
add-on status:  Verified  (at least 1 TEAM MEMBER installed/tested it, inspected it).
add-on status:  Approved (at least 2 TEAM MEMBERS decide for that status).

 

 

Seems not everyone understand...these are STATUSES , it mean they are all down loadable, they only have a STATUS for letting people know in what they get into.

If after 1 year an add-on still has the status of EXPERIMENTAL, it simply means it is not popular enough or just recently uploaded, or is a crap.

 

Version separation rc1 /2.3/2.3.X

 

In theory no one has in fact goto the add-ons web-page (END-USERS), they can access it via there admin.

As their back-end is aware what osCommerce version is running, only add-ons according their version will be visible.

 

Creation of add-ons installation.txt

 

Any add-on that requires an installation.txt should on forehand be avoided, it means you change core files....basta.

A suitable add-on can have it's own documentation inside the add-on itself.

 

If you still decide to change core files, i think in fact you should then simply sign-up into the partner program.And submit your add-on as a commercial add-on.

It will make you responsible to the end-user for any non-functioning osCommerce.

 

Of course any release of osCommerce should be build in such a manner, that no core file changes are required to let run an add-on properly.

Edited by wHiTeHaT

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When a system is put in place for "automatic" installation and any new add-on has to follow a certain coding standard, this will be a big plus for a shop owner.

 

BUT this will also mean that it will be kinda like Magneto, Opencart and Presta Shop, where in the end close to all useful add-ons will be commercial ones and most of the free ones will not be updated or just "lite" versions.   

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@@wHiTeHaT

Are you talking about future object oriented osCommerce versions ?

 

e.g. I have a function to display product details and another to display a whole bunch of products into a UI widget

implementing this in current 2.3.4  requires changes to catalog/xyz and catalog/includes/modules/... files,

 

do you consider this core changes ?


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FYI Upgrade to the highest PHP version you can( PHP 5.5/5.6 or 7.1  and get big performance improvements for free)

But be aware php 5.5 is more strict about things.
UTF8-without BOM, no extra spaces allowed at the beginning or end of your php file, or your redirects wont work.
No double declarations of functions allowed - used to slip through the cracks ...

 

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@@toyicebear

BUT this will also mean that it will be kinda like Magneto is the guy from x-men, you ment: Magento, Opencart and Presta Shop, where in the end close to all useful add-ons will be commercial ones and most of the free ones will not be updated or just "lite" versions.

 
Exactly, and it is a good thing for the people who Code add-ons for their living.

Ask yourself the following question: what do you REALLY need to get something sold? Is oscommerce by itself not already pretty sufficient?

Is it then not just normal, that for all the extras someone wants/requires, is asked a fee?

Where ends "being content with what you have/get, or is given you freely" ?
 
 
@@bruyndoncx
 
Yes....and Yes however as stated:
 

Of course any release of osCommerce should be build in such a manner, that no core file changes are required to let run an add-on properly.

But as such add-ons as mentioned before (the ones what require core changes) should be avoided into the add-ons section.

It does not mean you should not put them somewhere public accessible.

There are plenty of websites and blogs around that show their way of how to do things.

So... no one is stopping anyone for not make such website/blog where they put their codes on.

If someone is asking in the forum for such specific, you are allowed by the forum rules to point the person who asked, to that website.

Edited by wHiTeHaT

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@@bruyndoncx

 

I think what whitehat means is any file that needs to be altered no matter which one is a core change. But creating add-ons that use a so called content modules system or hook system like recently the header tags modules where people just click the install module button and that will add a new feature without ever touching any core files is not considered a core file change. osC 2.3.4 and the Bootstrap version community build introduced such feature but this is still not standard osC and cannot be used for everything yet. Some add-ons require major code changes to the core like SEO add-ons or Master/Slave or Option Types these add-ons will be very challenging.

 

Like George said we have to do something NOW! and a reviews system or status system like whitehat mentioned would be a good step forward and it shouldn't be that difficult to do, i guess

We have already some sort of verified system in the add-ons section, look at haralds payment modules (PayPal) just extend that to other add-ons.

 

And a candy for my eyes would be a Bootstrapped version of the Add-ons section. *wish*

Edited by Tsimi

When you ask for help/support:

  • Always state your osCommerce version
  • If possible, list up installed add-ons
  • 3rd party templates are not supported in the forum

Latest osC: osCommerce CE (Community Edition aka. Edge)

 

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Exactly, and it is a good thing for the people who Code add-ons for their living.

 

 

My point is that a lot of the users (shop owners) of oscommerce are used to free add-ons and support, and they expect that to continue with the added benefit of easy installs.

 

For those such a new system would come with a rude awakening to the hash realities of the business world.

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My point is that a lot of the users (shop owners) of oscommerce are used to free add-ons and support, and they expect that to continue with the added benefit of easy installs.

 

For those such a new system would come with a rude awakening to the hash realities of the business world.

 

 

the same way they got used to: free add-ons and support

They will get used to : free add-ons and support + commercial add-ons and payed support.

 

You let it sound that the old way will be totally disappear.

Anyone with a philanthropic attitude can add free add-ons and give free support.

 

For me it is also a bit strange when talk about e-commerce, a money involving business, people let it sound as they against it.

It is a contradiction.

Edited by wHiTeHaT

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For those such a new system would come with a rude awakening to the hash realities of the business world.

 

This is what an awful lot of shopowners require.  Anyone with half a business brain knows that it takes cash (and usually a lot of it) to set up a business.

 

From here, the rest of the post is aimed at no-one in particular..

 

I would fully expect that a correctly written addon would not be added to the addons area as a free of charge download.  In fact, I would advise that all developers start to code to the expected parameters from this point forward and license their work BSD, not GPL.

 

The time of free as in free speech is over.  Do these shopowners who take and take and take and take, give away their products for free?  Of course not - so why shouhld they expect developers to give away their product?

 

I want to move osCommerce away from it's historical position and into a new world of professionalism for the end user.  In return I expect the end user to be professional and business-like.  Any developer or shopowner who does not subscribe to moving osCommerce forward is very welcome to leave.

Edited by burt

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@@wHiTeHaT

 

I agree with you that such an optional status system as you propose would be a helpful orientation. But I'm in doubt that the Team Members really can afford to install and test at least the addons which have one or more votes from users. Who should also do that?

And again: The average user does not use the rating system in the forum (a little more in the english, a little less in the german forum), so I see no reason to assume that this would be different for a rating system in the addon area.

 

That no installation guide is needed is currently probably still in the future. If the architecture of osc in the future is completely modular - as at the moment some small areas such as login or checkout success - it should be possible, in fact, to build addons that do not change the core files. But this is (perhaps) the future. Here and now, very few addons do not require such changes. And as long as this is so, addons without installation instructions are about as useful as toothache - basta!

 

J.J.

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@@De Dokta

But as such add-ons as mentioned before (the ones what require core changes) should be avoided into the add-ons section.
It does not mean you should not put them somewhere public accessible.
There are plenty of websites and blogs around that show their way of how to do things.
So... no one is stopping anyone for not make such website/blog where they put their codes on.
If someone is asking in the forum for such specific, you are allowed by the forum rules to point the person who asked, to that website.

The more people who go do that, the more fire in the Team members will get in there *ss to make osCommerce in such a manner these get obsolete.

 

Also read avoided , i not say it will not make it into the add-ons section.

Edited by wHiTeHaT

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I want to move osCommerce away from it's historical position and into a new world of professionalism for the end user.  In return I expect the end user to be professional and business-like.  Any developer or shopowner who does not subscribe to moving osCommerce forward is very welcome to leave.

 

What will osCommerce have to offer under that business model? Will you spend millions to advertise it, like Magento does? Will it have features that no other cart has, or addons that no other cart has? I suspect the answer to all of these questions is no. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

The main selling point for osCommerce today is the vast number of addons that are freely available. If that is gone, I see no reason to stay here. I will certainly not be releasing any code under the BSD license.

 

Regards

Jim


See my profile for a list of my addons and ways to get support.

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Oh dear, this will probably get me banned, or at least my post will be removed (again!) but I really dont like the way the forum is going at the moment for the following reasons:

 

I have used OSC for many years (both as Mort-lemur and previously as another name) and like many I fall into a category that is not black and white - Im certainly not a developer, but Im not a simple shop owner either, one of the reasons I like OSC is that it gives me something to play with, I (most of the time) enjoy installing modifications and tweeking them so they work the way I personally want them to work and knowing that there are very kind people in this COMMUNITY that are prepared to help out and offer advice and assistance when its needed. In my personal view a one-click-install will remove the character from OSC and kill the community dead in its tracks.

 

After all OSC by its very name is OPEN SOURCE and it seems to be being driven away from this into a commercial venture where a handful of developers will provide paid for solutions and support for users of 2.4

 

Gone will be some of the great (in my opinion) add-ons such as option types, order editors / makers etc etc as they will not be produced unless someone pays a developer to code them so they will just fade away, leaving OSC as a bare boned system with a few simple mods (and some payed for mods at an unknown cost)

 

I agree that there should be a rating system for current mods, and that should not be too difficult to achieve, but to have all new mods vetted by a developer would certainly slow the system to a standstil and prevent non developers in the COMMUNITY having a go at publishing their mod.

 

Its been stated that starting a business carries a large cost well thats simply not true these days, I started one of mine with £50 and it now has almost a six figure turnover (unfortunately not 6 figure profit) - If I had needed to spend 100's or 1000's to get my business off the ground it simply would not have happened.

 

Please remember that this is a COMMUNITY where everyones views should be taken into account not just the views of the ones with most to gain by commercialising OSC and its add-ons, and rigoroulsy policing what is said in the forum by removing posts that the mods to not agree with.

 

Ill get my coat............


Now running on a fully modded, Mobile Friendly 2.3.4 Store with the Excellent MTS installed - See my profile for the mods installed ..... So much thanks for all the help given along the way by forum members.

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The only posts that ever get hidden are spam and trolls.  As your last couple of posts were simple trolls they got removed.  

 

Who benefits from correctly coded addons:

 

1. end user

a. ease of installation

b. ease of updating core code when a new version comes out

 

2.  addon developer

a. less code to maintain

b. less support to have to give

 

3.  core coders

a. no core code touched

b. no bogus bug reports

 

Now, who does not benefit:

 

1.  end users

a. if they feel that a developers product is worth less than the developer is charging for it.

bear in mind that a developer can still say his code is GPL and up it to the addons area exactly as is done now, no one is going to be stopping him/her, it simply means that a well coded addon would receive more "publicity" than a poor coded one.  Also near in mind that the cost for the developers product could be zero.

 

2.  developers

a. "press to install" stops shopowners from seeking help from developers

b.  addons will be coded a different way using multiple modules - harder to code

understandably, some developers are resistant to upcoming changes

 

-----------

 

Q; who are the ones with most to gain from addons being coded the "new way" ?

A: shopowners

 

Q: who are the ones with most to lose from addons being coded the "new way" ?

those developers who rely on shopowners needing addons installed manually

 

-----------

 

Summary

 

Addons are expected to be coded in the new way and to a standard that wont break your shop.  Just over the weekend, I heard about an addon that dropped a required table when the SQL was run, I had to come into the forum on a weekend to clean up the posts...  

 

Shopowners can expect new addons coded in the new way, uploaded 'GPL' or uploaded 'BSD'.  They want cheap and cheerful, they can have it.  They want coded gracefully and with direct support from developer, they can have it.  They want to build their own, they can have it.   

 

If shopowners think that even 10% of the code developers write is added to the addons area at the moment, then they don't understand how a developer works.  If shopowners think the top end developers use addons to make money then they are sadly mistaken. 

 

Also

 

Please look back to the conversation and re-read.  The idea of an addons vetting process was brought up by a top end developer (George of MTS @@multimixer) who volunteered to look into it and 1 other community member also volunteered @@PupStar - at no point would osCommerce Team be involved in that.  Addons would be uploaded by the community and vetted by the community.

Edited by burt

This is a signature that appears on all my posts.  
IF YOU MAKE A POST REQUESTING HELP...please state the exact version
of osCommerce that you are using. THANKS

 
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This topic was started as a reason to ask how it would be best to handle add-ons.

 

See where it ended.

 

 

 

It seem you all not see that what you try to preserve is still falling harder and harder downwards.

The people who made in the past all these great add-ons you talk about, do you know where they are now?

The people who stayed here and made add-ons under that "spirit of the community", these still have all the room they want to submit add-ons.

So i really not understand for what you are afraid.

 

Now... explain THAT...... i just gave you a reason why you not need to be afraid.

I gave everyone who is against the idea a reason to not need to be against it.

 

What guarantee you want to have more?

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Just over the weekend, I heard about an addon that dropped a required table when the SQL was run, and I see the developer of that addon liking posts in this conversation that say "everything should stay as is, no changes needed".

 

Burt

 

I have checked back through the thread and the developer of the add-on that dropped the zones table has not contributed to this thread or liked any posts.

 

Cheers

 

G


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My mistake.  

Whats the point of your post?


This is a signature that appears on all my posts.  
IF YOU MAKE A POST REQUESTING HELP...please state the exact version
of osCommerce that you are using. THANKS

 
Get the latest current code (community-supported responsive 2.3.4.1BS Edge) here

 

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i tell you what it is.... These people are in my opinion full of crap.

They have no clue what they talk about or what they in fact are against.

I also have totally no intentions in playing for these an act in staying nice, they are a waist of time to spend attention to.

 

No one yet mentioned anything concrete and based on FACTS , why osCommerce should not move ahead in previous discussed directions.

 

The people that are against is just "A hand full", i not yet seen that much END-USERS wining or complaining.

For these END-USERS osCommerce is build.

 

Based on osCommerce reputation people started building FOR osCommerce (more and more add-ons came available, where the ones used osCommerce (website building guys), served it to their clients.

 

As that is the intention of releasing an open-source script, regardless of what you feel as "spirit of opensource" .

 

And current direction still allows to do the exact same.

So stop being full of crap and brainless, get real..... welcome to the world.

 

(all post i made in this topic are approved by ME, i made them in MY name, not in osCommerce name)

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