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Fusion616

OSCommerce appears to be totally outdated

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A new start like v2.4 would be great way for us without compatible addons as other competitors raped pre-developed osc cores. And licence change.

 

There should be core development and oscommerce addons version on github as two branch. Addons version for free shop owners and core version for developers.


:blink:
osCommerce based shop owner with minimal design and focused on background works. When the less is more.
Email managment with tracking pixel, package managment for shipping, stock management, warehouse managment with bar code reader, parcel shops management on 3000 pickup points without local store.

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Surprised that neither of you"get" the idea of a barebones system into which one can hook extras. These extras would be the things ripped out of core and well coded extras.

 

So a skeleton into which a shopowner can press a button to add a limb, another button adds a hand, another another another etc. In other words a perfect bespoke site for individual shopkeepers. Utopia for the shop owner and for the person doing the support in my opinion.

 

 

Pretty certain you are talking devoper here not shopkeeper ~ I didn't think I wanted attributes when I first used osC, now I can't live without it. Why rip out bits of osC for it only to be put back in again... presumably by a developer?

I think you're right asking for store owers opinions, because it's very easy to see that many devolpers don't have a clue when it comes to maketing anything other than programming.

 

Myself? I'd like a osC that had plugins for the standard requirements but with the ability to tweak those plugins or use non plugin add-ons when I wanted - I use many add-ons but most of them are tweaked for my business and my store and don't run as their devoper intended - a good reason to use osC and not Magneto!


My store is currently running Phoenix 1.0.3.0

I'm currently working on 1.0.7.2 and hope to get it live before 1.0.8.0 arrives (maybe 🙄 )

I used to have a list of add-ons here but I've found that with the ones that supporters of Phoenix get any other add-ons are not really neccessary

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This Topic should be re-opened inside this section of the forum.

 

Next Steps / Optimizations / Marketing

 

 

This current Topic shows how different each POV (point of view) is and we need to discuss this further and decide one direction to go with.

Without doing that now osC can not grow/evolve further into a "better" platform.

 

Currently from what I understood is, we got following;

 

Bare bone version: (devs and coders favorite, i guess)

 

This is what @@burt suggested, to strip everything away from osC and then add this functions later as paid, well coded and supported modules.

So the basis osC BB (bare bone) would be free and the additional modules would cost money or evtl. charge monthly fees and make these modules available for

subscribers. Did i get that right so far?

The thing is, IF you want to ask the people if they prefer this kinda version of osC then you have to show them some sort of price table.

So that shop owners can already pre-calculate how much they might have to invest to get what they need to run their business.

It is rather difficult for me to say YES to this idea IF i don't know how much it is gonna cost me at the end.

Nevertheless the thought behind it is very interesting.

One more thing that goes through my mind is other platforms like presta or magento offer a similar system, you can get the main software which includes already lot more in the core then current osC does

and they sell small add-ons/packages to add later on. I don't know how well supported these packages are but it seems to work since they have currently more users then osC has.

If the amount of current users make a platform better is another thing..... :rolleyes: Some might say, because a lot users use Windows, it doesn't make it the better OS.

 

Loaded osC version: (monthly fee basis)

 

Some mentioned to have a "clean, good coded" loaded version of osC. With functions like edit/create orders, x-sell, better invoice system, SEO and so on....on a monthly fee basis. Still giving the shop owner later on

the possibility to make changes to the core code as they do now.

I would like to know, how do you support the basic version of it? Who supports it? If the shop owner let's say adds custom code in it does he still have rights to get free support from the people that created/supported that loaded version of osC?

Or does the support warranty expire. ("similar to electric devices, once opened the warranty expires...")

If this should be the future way for osC then we need to talk about WHAT should be loaded in it? And i think that is gonna take some time to decide and then again who decides what goes in it at the end.

 

"Loaded" osC version: (freeware basis)

 

As Steve mentioned already this should/could be osC with more functionality from the start. No brainers should be added. There is a point where shop owners will have to edit or add orders manually and

such a function is a must have. The thing is there is no, well-coded module for this. Better pricing system. (show incl., excl. VAT, show price in other currencies under the product price.....)

Responsive design is on its way i guess, @@burt and other coders did a big step forward regarding this matter.

I would like to see the same commitment in creating these no brainer modules the same way osC 2.3.3.4 BS was created. Few together (community) clean these add-ons up and make them ready to be added to the core. Here also we need a listing that shows what people want to be added to the core.

 

Regarding this country specific thing, it would be great to have them as some kind of package. UK Law Pack, German Law Pack, US Law Pack and so on...which contains all necessary modification that need to be applied by Law. The problem will probably be, are these packages free? Who will keep updating them, since Laws change form time to time.

There are some terrible examples out there, like the German, pre-loaded osC 2.2 MS2 that is available somewhere out there. Since Germany has a very complicated Law regarding online stores people like to use that crappy coded, outdated, not supported pre-loaded version. Then they run in all sort of troubles and complain how crappy osC is and nothing works bla, bla, bla.....

There is also a Germany Law ready pack in the add-ons section, same there, not up to date regarding Laws, not updated to run with osC 2.3.3.4

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The thing is WHO decides finally which direction it should go? The devs? The shop owners? The coders? All together?

And when will this decision be made?

 

For me right now it is very, very difficult to make a decision since i don't know "more details".

 

If anything i wrote above is misinterpreted please forgive me and explain how it was meant to be understood.

 

You missed one:

 

Leave osC as it is - it ain't broke for most of the store owners that use it!


My store is currently running Phoenix 1.0.3.0

I'm currently working on 1.0.7.2 and hope to get it live before 1.0.8.0 arrives (maybe 🙄 )

I used to have a list of add-ons here but I've found that with the ones that supporters of Phoenix get any other add-ons are not really neccessary

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When I started out in my business I had no money for a on line store, my web site was the cheapest I could find. I found a free ecommerce store - osC - it had enough in it for me to use direct from the box and I did. As the pennies started rolling in I thought about making my store more presentable, so with the help of a manual (purchaced from a developer on this thread) I made my store look better. When 2.3 came out I broke that to fit in with my store and then added the add-ons that I wanted to make my store handle better, both for me and the customer.

 

I now could pay a developer to work on my store but... how do I get a developer to see the idea I have in my mind execute it and apply it to my store without them putting in their own embelishments to completly ruin my idea? - the answer is I can't so I don't.

 

My point... Don't strip anything out of the core, there are people out there that can't afford anything other than free, there are things that could be added to the core, like SEO, etc., but surely these things are earned - "I need SEO, I'll either have to do it myself or get a developer to do it for me" - Is't that really what osC is all about.

 

Just because a program is at the top of the leader board doesn't mean it's the best program on that board!


My store is currently running Phoenix 1.0.3.0

I'm currently working on 1.0.7.2 and hope to get it live before 1.0.8.0 arrives (maybe 🙄 )

I used to have a list of add-ons here but I've found that with the ones that supporters of Phoenix get any other add-ons are not really neccessary

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I take it you didn't read all the comments posted. The general idea is to take the core down to barebones, What is removed then becomes hook modules that are installed by the press of a button. Loads such modules would be free. This allows the shopowner to bespoke his site and allows the person doing the support to be able to support less code. Shopowner sells eBooks, he doesn;t need the weight module, shopowner sells pots of jam, he does. Shopowner needs attributes, 1 click, installed. He doesn't, dont bother installing. Then, there would be more modules made free, lite or commercial, again hooked for easy install, that the shopowner can elect to use or not based on how the ROI will impact his bottom line.

 

When you've seen the state of 1000s of real life osCommerce shopowners codebase, you'll soon conclude that leaving osCommerce as it is is not an option.


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The easiest way to explain this would maybe be using todays payment or shipping module system as an example. Each shop chooses what shipping/payment modules they need and can install those with a click in admin.

 

A barebone system would be kinda like that, just that a lot more of the functionality is an optional click to install module/plugin in admin.

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I have already coded a lot of modules that would do this. Front page (already released), categories page, product info page, checkout success, etc. I only lack the time to package up a release. Make these pages modular in the core and I would be able to release more addon modules.

 

Regards

Jim


See my profile for a list of my addons and ways to get support.

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I take it you didn't read all the comments posted. The general idea is to take the core down to barebones, What is removed then becomes hook modules that are installed by the press of a button. Loads such modules would be free. This allows the shopowner to bespoke his site and allows the person doing the support to be able to support less code. Shopowner sells eBooks, he doesn;t need the weight module, shopowner sells pots of jam, he does. Shopowner needs attributes, 1 click, installed. He doesn't, dont bother installing. Then, there would be more modules made free, lite or commercial, again hooked for easy install, that the shopowner can elect to use or not based on how the ROI will impact his bottom line.

 

Yes I did read all the comments and I still say what you are saying will not put osC on the top of the leader board - taking out attributes, weights, shipping, payments, & etc., and then have them as installable extra modules is going to do what for the final feel of a store that the store owners customers use?

 

We all know there are two parts to osC - the store front that everyone sees - this is the part that needs more improvement - not for ease of installing but for ease of use for the store owners customers - go look around other peoples stores, see what they have in the way of extras (add-ons) to make the store slicker and easier to use. Having a store that is easy to convert to a mobile site is a must - I've been running a mobile version of my store for around 2 or 3 years now - where is the official osC version? It is things like this that osC developers should be working on not taking everything out and putting it back in again bit by bit.

 

And then there is the back end, yes there is loads of stuff within that the average store owner might not use, yes you could argue that removing it would save space but there again most of it is only modules so is not built into the core anyway. osC has a basic accounting and invoicing but has no means to transfer that data to the store owner's accounting program (yes, there are two add-ons one for Quick Books and a csv - there are more accounting programs than QB and the csv add-on is very basic). No one has really bothered about shipping tracking either - tracking a shipment is just as important as stopping hacking - both will lose you money

 

Has any osC developer asked themselves why there are so many store keepers still using earlier versions of osC, and not updating to the newest version?

 

 

When you've seen the state of 1000s of real life osCommerce shopowners codebase, you'll soon conclude that leaving osCommerce as it is is not an option.

 

And that state will either stay the same or get worse, shopowners want individuality - sucessful ones are not sheep - so they will alter and add-on until they get what they want.

 

 

You seem to be suggesting that osC forks itself, maybe it will but wheter that will be good for the end user remains to be seen!


My store is currently running Phoenix 1.0.3.0

I'm currently working on 1.0.7.2 and hope to get it live before 1.0.8.0 arrives (maybe 🙄 )

I used to have a list of add-ons here but I've found that with the ones that supporters of Phoenix get any other add-ons are not really neccessary

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The easiest way to explain this would maybe be using todays payment or shipping module system as an example. Each shop chooses what shipping/payment modules they need and can install those with a click in admin.

 

A barebone system would be kinda like that, just that a lot more of the functionality is an optional click to install module/plugin in admin.

 

But I can do that now - well at least with the payment module - my shipping seems to be too complex for osC's idea of shipping so had to write my own...

 

Would I still be able to do that?


My store is currently running Phoenix 1.0.3.0

I'm currently working on 1.0.7.2 and hope to get it live before 1.0.8.0 arrives (maybe 🙄 )

I used to have a list of add-ons here but I've found that with the ones that supporters of Phoenix get any other add-ons are not really neccessary

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What I aiming for is a system of easy updating so that all shopwners can easily keep their shop bang up to date. If you can't see a value in that, that's OK. I can, hence it is what I am personally aiming for.


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We all know there are two parts to osC - the store front that everyone sees - this is the part that needs more improvement - not for ease of installing but for ease of use for the store owners customers - go look around other peoples stores, see what they have in the way of extras (add-ons) to make the store slicker and easier to use. Having a store that is easy to convert to a mobile site is a must - I've been running a mobile version of my store for around 2 or 3 years now - where is the official osC version? It is things like this that osC developers should be working on not taking everything out and putting it back in again bit by bit.

 

Could you give an example of something wonderful in a customer facing area of any store that does not exist as core or addon...


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@@Xpajun , it is for sure you not understand anything of what is discussed in this tread.

exactly the points you naming is worked on to give the shop owner a experience he control all parts of the shop.

But providing the shop owner with current core elements as current oscommerce versions hold , will not satisfy the shop owner.

The shop owner will get a section in his admin where he can directly install any wanted and available add-on/plug-in you name it.

 

So you state that someone that not uses product attributes must be forced to have it on his server?

What is the difference for you in:

not having it, not using it

compared to: install it, use it?

 

Regarding the "mobile version", once again... if read careful, you could have read that this is ALREADY and also will be covered in future versions.

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@@burt

 

You asked for shop owners opinions of what they want from oscommerce, and once you got some that didnt fit with your vision you immediately discounted these ideas. Why ask if you are taking no notice. Myself and a few other store owners gave you basically the same answers and you said that none of them would happen. Your vision of oscommerce must be so different from what a store owner wants. This may be the reasons why today more people use prestashop, opencart and magneto, than use oscommerce. That must tell you something about what shop owners want.

 

I had a similar discussion several months ago on these forums, and the answers were the same, so I looked elsewhere for a ecommerce platform to use. Once you look at what others offer as standard, you can see how behind oscommerce is. As a store owner I dont want to flaff around installing addons with no guarantee that they will work with any others that i have installed. I want a shop that does what I want from the word go. I want it to be listed in google, or whereever, and get reasonable results. I want it to control my stock, even with attributes, and I want it to be relatively straight forward to add products. When products sell I want to send sensible emails and updates to my customers., which greatly improves their shopping exoperience. Once I have an order I want o be able to process that order all through to delivery, even printing off the postal labels if necessary. If I want some function that is not included as standard then I want a well coded addon that works. I would noy even mind paying for it if I did what i wanted.

 

What I dont want is to search through what could be badly coded addons to find something that does not work after i have installed it. This is what happens now, and unless someone is going to check the code in all addons it will happen again. You say it takes too long to code and update the core code, surely it wont take so long as checking all uploaded addons work and comply with coding standards. I may be wrong.

 

I say put more into the core code and if necessary charge for the code. use that money to better and further oscommerce. Add code to make it responsive and give store owners what they want, not what you think they want. Let developers supply the code to who they want, just charge a license fee for each store used.


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@@14steve14

 

What i just wrote for Xpajun , counts also for you.

At the moment you have no guarantee that any of the current add-on will work in your current set-up.

When the idea takes place that what is in the mind, you will have that guarantee.

Inserting add-ons by default does not make the shop-owners life easier, only the individual shop-owner what specific need the current extra's , like for example attributes.

 

I am 100% sure if this comes reality, you go feel a relief. ;)

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@@wHiTeHaT

 

How can you be so sure that an addon that I code and write will work on all oscommerce installs. You cant, so stop making silly statements unless you are going to volunteer to check each and every one of them, in which case you be very busy. If there is a code standard, them someone has to check that all new addons comply. What happens if I update someone elses addon, then who is responsible again for checking that it works. as you have volunteered I take it you wil be doing it.


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@@14steve14 , first of all there should be made a core version compliances.

After that the system "successfull" installed the add-on/plug-in , by it's intregrated "checking" system, you should infact be ready to go.

However it could be that there is a failure in the plug-in.It would then be nice if you would click on the add-ons "REPORT" button to say that that add-on is not compliant, so other users can avoid the add-on, or even better, it will not be available anymore.

The creator of the add-on will have insight in his admin section to read any report made of his add-on.

 

;)

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. What happens if I update someone elses addon, then who is responsible again for checking that it works. as you have volunteered I take it you wil be doing it.

 

you are not allowed to do that.

 

you will have to submit your own (changed) add-on.

 

After if you decide to manually change a certified add-on and get bug's.

You can always goto the forum and ask what you did wrong.

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So even adding a new language to the addon will create a brand new addon. That just makes things more complicated for those searching for something surely.


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So even adding a new language to the addon will create a brand new addon. That just makes things more complicated for those searching for something surely.

 

if you create an additional language for an add-on you can contact the creator of the add-on , in the add-on section there should be a button that say's: contact me.

You can send him the language define.If he accept it and is fair, he might go even mention you in the credit section :)

 

A language is not an add-on.... silly man :)

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@@14steve14 - show me where I have discounted the ideas of anyone who has posted in this thread? You say you looked elsewhere, but you're still here - so we osCommerce and those people who are making a difference can't be all bad. I'm taking on board everything said by all parties, whilst also stating my -personal- viewpoint. Is my point of view worth less than yours or anyones ?

 

If you continually look for problems, that is well and good. We all know there are problems, but very very (very) few people are working on solutions...

 

I may be wrong.

 

Usually, yes ;)


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@@14steve14:

 

I want it to control my stock, even with attributes

 

Addons exist for this, including 1 that is ultra modern and non code invasive.

 

send sensible emails and updates to my customers

 

Ever heard of Mailchimp, and/or Mandrill. Addons exist for both of these.

 

printing off the postal labels

 

Addon exists for this, written specifically for Avery if I recall correctly.

 

I want a well coded addon that works. I would noy even mind paying for it if I did what i wanted.

 

Sounds like you'll enjoy the new marketplace for addons.


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@@Xpajun , it is for sure you not understand anything of what is discussed in this tread.

exactly the points you naming is worked on to give the shop owner a experience he control all parts of the shop.

But providing the shop owner with current core elements as current oscommerce versions hold , will not satisfy the shop owner.

The shop owner will get a section in his admin where he can directly install any wanted and available add-on/plug-in you name it.

 

So you state that someone that not uses product attributes must be forced to have it on his server?

What is the difference for you in:

not having it, not using it

compared to: install it, use it?

 

Regarding the "mobile version", once again... if read careful, you could have read that this is ALREADY and also will be covered in future versions.

 

 

Sorry but osC developers seem only to be wanting to produce add-ons that they think the store keeper needs or should have, not what the store keeper really wants.

 

Every add-on in the osC database has been designed to work with the author's or developer's own store not for just anybody's store - it might work, it might not, usually it can be made to work if the store owner desperately needs it.

You are suggesting that a plug in system will work but what you don't say is whether it will be exactly what the store owner wants, and then the store owner has to wait on the developer to get what he wants but the developer doen't know, care or understand what the store owner wants and insists that his plugin does exactly what the store owner needs. :rolleyes:

 

osC developers are the tail of the dog - they need to listen carefully to what the head of the dog - the store owners - have to say about what they want in their store, not try wagging the dog as they seem to be now!


My store is currently running Phoenix 1.0.3.0

I'm currently working on 1.0.7.2 and hope to get it live before 1.0.8.0 arrives (maybe 🙄 )

I used to have a list of add-ons here but I've found that with the ones that supporters of Phoenix get any other add-ons are not really neccessary

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@@burt

@@14steve14 - show me where I have discounted the ideas of anyone who has posted in this thread?

 

Post 56 in this very thread.


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@@14steve14:

 

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Addons exist for this, including 1 that is ultra modern and non code invasive.

 

 

 

Ever heard of Mailchimp, and/or Mandrill. Addons exist for both of these.

 

 

 

Addon exists for this, written specifically for Avery if I recall correctly.

 

 

 

Sounds like you'll enjoy the new marketplace for addons.

 

Dont you think that all the items I listed should be in the core code. They are in most of the other oscommerce competitors.


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