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Fusion616

OSCommerce appears to be totally outdated

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Ill raise my head above the battlements as well........... as a shop owner....

 

I like OSC and would not even consider any different software for my sites - probably mainly because I have got used to the software on and off since 2004 and with carrying out most of the work on my stores myself I have a sense of ownership and achievement - Im proud of my OSC Shops!.

 

If I were a new customer, and wanted an online shop quickly, would I consider OSC now? The answer is probably not - its a steep learning curve to modify a vanilla install of OSC with the mods needed to make it into a workable, presentable shop. The default look requires a great deal to be desired and if I am to be brutally honest (in my opinion) I think the commercial aspects of things are slowly strangling OSC - is it just me or has anyone else noticed a marked "slowing down" on the forum? With reduced numbers of visitors?

 

I agree with Steve, we need to offer a semi-loaded version, for people who do not want (or cannot) learn php / sql - there are a dozen or so mods that are Essential in I would guess 99% of shops, and In my view Steve has captured about 75% of what I would suggest as the bare minimum requirements.

 

In the "good old days" there was no hint of commercialism, and people seemed keen to help and learn on this forum without being told to "submit a request for commercial support" - otherwise some of (in my view) great mods would never have been written - as they must have been an immense commitment of time and effort.

 

Why not look at splitting the forum in two:

 

1) The part that is - bare bones OSC with Free mods and advice where available for people like me who like to "tamper" with the code and mods

2) A new fully commercial part, with a Loaded OSC available, together with a showcase area for developers to sell their modifications (and if they feel kind to share them on the non commercial area as well)

 

Failing that I dont know what the solution or way forward is - but I feel that OSC is slowly losing its identity and its roots.

 

I'll hide behind the sofa now........


Now running on a fully modded, Mobile Friendly 2.3.4 Store with the Excellent MTS installed - See my profile for the mods installed ..... So much thanks for all the help given along the way by forum members.

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Ofcourse i respect that , but please not see it as negative.

What i said is based on past history.

These past neglected facts he can use, and rub them right into their faces with, and kick their ases. (in a way of speaking)

 

And say to them, it is now time to make a change.

The "others" are very aware of that something must be changed.

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I was just about to post my comment but after reading @@14steve14 comment (post no.47) i think he pretty much sums it up. Very well explained Steve. BRAVO!

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I feel I need to chime in, but I'm not the typical store owner as I used to work in IT before returning to mom and pops shop

 

My party line has always been 'if you have more time than money, use open source software so you can thinker yourself', but since a few years with the introduction of free 'community editions' and paid-for 'commercial editions' the lines are a little bit blurred.

 

I like the approach suggested by Mort-lemur for a barebones version and a loaded commercial osC with one-click install.

The one-click install and updates imply that the core code is not touched by the add-ons, or there is somekind of compatibility check for the different add-ons to verify they are compatible. In essence it would need something like in the firefox browser to manage the different (commercial) add-ons.

 

I have experienced the pain of upgrading and I now try to keep as close to the standard and avoid changing core code, so it is easier to keep up-to-date.


KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON

I do not use the responsive bootstrap version since i coded my responsive version earlier, but i have bought every 28d of code package to support burts effort and keep this forum alive (albeit more like on life support).

So if you are still here ? What are you waiting for ?!

 

Find the most frequent unique errors to fix:

grep "PHP" php_error_log.txt | sed "s/^.* PHP/PHP/g" |grep "line" |sort | uniq -c | sort -r > counterrors.txt

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Few standard things I do on all installs seo urls / header meta tags / page manager (extra pages) / google sitemap / open the footer to add a bit of extra info ... address ... payment methods etc....

 

and lets add a pre installed blank stylesheet same as bootstrap for customisation would make it easier to answer members questions first place to look simply keeps things clean.

 

That is enough to get most people up and running from there on it gets very individual.

 

regards

Joli


To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often.

 

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You won't see a loaded osCommerce, it's never going to happen as you won't find;

 

a/ anyone willing to create it

b/ anyone willing to fully support it, as a 100% of their time job

c/ enough well coded addons to actually be useable

 

I want a melon, you want a lemon - who wins? I can give examples of this but I am sure everyone understands what I mean.

 

I know at least 1 person who put together a loaded osCommerce, but won't share it publically. I don't know the reason why, possibly because of the support aspect, possibly because they want to make money from their hard work, who knows.


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@@burt

 

Anyone is welcome to my version if they want it :) - But there will obviously be a royalty for the MTS used


Now running on a fully modded, Mobile Friendly 2.3.4 Store with the Excellent MTS installed - See my profile for the mods installed ..... So much thanks for all the help given along the way by forum members.

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I wasn't referring to yours @@Mort-lemur, there is a developer who has a version (note, not me!).

 

You can make yours available, well and good. What about support ? This is where it unravels.

As soon as 1 person gets their hand on it, uploads it to addons area or such, MTS is now free.


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@@burt I see your point about uploading it / sharing it etc regards MTS

 

On the subject of a Loaded OSC, would it really be such a big support issue if it worked straight out of the box? with carefully selected (and corrected if necessary) modifications?

 

There must be 100's if not 1000's of shop owners who need a store but dont want the added burdon of having to mess with code - even if a downloadable Loaded version only cost 20 £ / $ / Euro then this would be a new funding stream for OSC, with themes / additional modules available for an additional cost.

 

If I was new to OSC then I would probably want something that worked from the outset with the functionality quoted above by Steve as a good starting point.


Now running on a fully modded, Mobile Friendly 2.3.4 Store with the Excellent MTS installed - See my profile for the mods installed ..... So much thanks for all the help given along the way by forum members.

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On the subject of a Loaded OSC, would it really be such a big support issue if it worked straight out of the box? with carefully selected (and corrected if necessary) modifications?
Based on the number of support requests both here and elsewhere that I have to deal with, the answer is; "it would be a full time job for probably 2, perhaps 3 people".

 

An idea would -may- be to offer a commercial version, but have it as an ongoing monthly fee (in other words, a business expense). Any more shopowners care to have a say?


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An idea would -may- be to offer a commercial version, but have it as an ongoing monthly fee (in other words, a business expense). Any more shopowners care to have a say?

 

Not a half bad idea.

 

Alternately, if you "could" do @@Mort-lemur 's idea of a loaded version then you could prevent a lot of support issues if you could somehow lock down (protect) the core code?

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Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Given that the code can't be "locked" in some manner to keep people from changing it, even a "loaded" version is still going to have people trying to add-on stuff to it. With all the extra code in a "loaded" version, the support problems will probably be worse than with a "bare bones" version, even if fewer people end up trying to modify the code (because everything they want is already there).

 

If we had a really foolproof way to add-on modules (one-button), we could ship the bare bones vanilla core of the program and give a list of suggested add-ons to install to provide certain categories of function. Some could even be packages of add-ons, rather than individual pieces. If the shop could pull these down from the repository all by itself (as well as updating them when the base updates), we'd have a winner.

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Based on the number of support requests both here and elsewhere that I have to deal with, the answer is; "it would be a full time job for probably 2, perhaps 3 people".

 

An idea would -may- be to offer a commercial version, but have it as an ongoing monthly fee (in other words, a business expense). Any more shopowners care to have a say?

This is pretty much the setup I have for my accounting package. The barebones is free to use, I wanted some more integration (with oscommerce), multi-user, pos and a few other bits to make it more easy and faster to use. I purchased a few one-time only add-ons, and have a yearly maintenance bundle which allows me to sleep at night knowing the business has someone else to fallback to in case of need. (fee is approx. 25€ / month)


KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON

I do not use the responsive bootstrap version since i coded my responsive version earlier, but i have bought every 28d of code package to support burts effort and keep this forum alive (albeit more like on life support).

So if you are still here ? What are you waiting for ?!

 

Find the most frequent unique errors to fix:

grep "PHP" php_error_log.txt | sed "s/^.* PHP/PHP/g" |grep "line" |sort | uniq -c | sort -r > counterrors.txt

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@ Heather, yes I share your point of view. I have a store and setting up a little buisness , no experience in either but I am learning a lot. Have you heard of Scratch (at scratch.mit.edu), computer programmation for kids. Modules that fit into each other. You can't go wrong with adding modules because the modules 'slot' together. It is fantastic.

From what I hear on TED, combined computers and human interaction is starting to happen. Wouldn't it be great for osc to have something like that ( I am dreaming :-D )

I understand that the internet evolves and you have to update the packages installed on your site to meet improvements on the internet. It must be possible to have complets modules that work like Scratch

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I think that there are some critical problems.

 

1. osCommerce development is based on linux. Desktop developing is weird if developers should use windows or apple enviroments without email sendings. Without SMTP I always have to update my linux site for testing something. It is abnormal.

 

How could we integrate MS or Mac developers if not allowed testing checkout mail sending in development?

 

- How could you develop a payment developing without sending email?

- How could you develop a HTML email feature in MS or Mac enviroment?

- How could you testing an email order?

- How could you follow an order without email?

- How could you ask reviews at the end of the order?

- How could you develop?

 

The answer is hardly endearing. Example: http://www.netmarketshare.com/os-market-share.aspx?qprid=9

 

2. A few of developers use github oscommerce chanel. Let's do addon projects in forked github core branches and everything will be very simple. I am waiting for a fixed core and would like to do it.


:blink:
osCommerce based shop owner with minimal design and focused on background works. When the less is more.
Email managment with tracking pixel, package managment for shipping, stock management, warehouse managment with bar code reader, parcel shops management on 3000 pickup points without local store.

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1. osCommerce is developed for Linux because most web servers run Linux. Or BSD, which is close enough. Why develop for a platform that's rarely used?

 

If you want to test, you can easily run Linux on your development box. Or rent a cheap hosted server and test on that. I do both.

 

2. I really need to find the time to learn Git. Why is it that any software designed for programmers is obscure, overly complex, and hard to use?

 

Regards

Jim


See my profile for a list of my addons and ways to get support.

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Hi Jim,

 

1. Why develop for a platform that's rarely used?

 

Rarely? I cant say it. 70% of developers use windows as I am. We dont want to install linux for developing oscommerce, because of the system inegrity. Why need mixture everithing if I could do it in a simple way? Wamp or Xamp simulated enviroments are enough to develop in desktop and we can do commit for github.

 

I think that something is more easy for testing, installing, comparing files and so on if not need change systems.

 

Yes, we could use linux only for our work but this will not happening.

 

Github is more social, more power and not easy but what is it?


:blink:
osCommerce based shop owner with minimal design and focused on background works. When the less is more.
Email managment with tracking pixel, package managment for shipping, stock management, warehouse managment with bar code reader, parcel shops management on 3000 pickup points without local store.

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You're best off developing on the exact same system as you will be running the live site on. That way, you can be sure that there will be no change of server version, PHP version, MySQL version, mail configuration, etc. when you try to go live. Simply develop in a private directory (password protected, if you wish) and move the system to production when you're done.

 

It's almost always a waste of time to develop on a local server (WAMPP, etc.) because you will spend as much time ironing out the kinks moving from one system to another as you save by having everything in one place. The only extra step is uploading edited files from your PC to the server, and that's quick.

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And yet, here you have a dev who would never develop anywhere other than on local server.

And, for the last 15 years that's never been an issue in going from local to live. Strange ;)


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2. I really need to find the time to learn Git. Why is it that any software designed for programmers is obscure, overly complex, and hard to use?

 

@@kymation

 

are you talking about Github??

I just started to work on/with Github 2 days ago and with the fantastic help of few members here I am now commiting code changes every day.

Really easy once you get the hang of it. I was recommended to use SourceTree (hope i can say that here) super easy handling.

At this point to those who helped me, THANK YOU!

 

btw. i also work on XAMP and never had "big" problems with uploaded files later on.

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You won't see a loaded osCommerce, it's never going to happen as you won't find;

 

I never mentioned anything about wanting a loaded version of oscommerce. I just think that there are some small areas that are missing from oscommerce which should be included with the core code, and it would appear that I am not alone. Once in the core code, the core team will then be able to keep the code correct, and ensure that if the product is updated, that all updates are compatible. Silly things like prices with or without taxes and VAT number shown on invoices, quotes and the website have been a legal requirement at least the UK for years now, and yet it is still not built in to oscommerce with the option to either turn it off or on. The same could be said for the EU cookie directive. Its a legal requirement, so it should really be included, as its such a small bit of code that needs to be added. I mentioned a cross sell area, well the whole idea of oscommerce is to sell stuff, so it should allow shop owners to sell stuff to the best of their ability. Making oscommerce responsive i understand is nearer, and again should be in the core code. There are now more people shopping using tablets and mobiles than there are sitting at a desktop or laptop, and the figures will only increase for non desktop devices.

 

Most of the other ecommerce softwares have these areas included, and not as a non working addon. Even the smaller free ones offer more functionality as standard that oscomerce does. If others can do it, why cant oscomerce?


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Edit to my post above: silly me, how could i think that Jim would have trouble with something like Github. Looked up "Git", looks complicated.... :wacko:

 

Regarding the loaded osC issue, i don't think that it would be a great idea to put "country" specific functions inside it. If you would do that people from Germany for eg. would go nuts. Have you ever read their Laws regarding Webshop/Onlineshop? Terrible i can say....They would also like to have a german osC loaded version.

But i think other no brainers would be great though.

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