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I, for one, am certainly happy to see the changes happening in OSC core.

 

No more filename defines is freaking great. No longer have to write FILENAME_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH to keep in the projects standards when writing code. But besides that, the main benefit being less define(s) and interpretations. A small but beneficial micro-optimization.

 

So someone found a bug, albeit a small bug that apparently reared its head on a 1.99 per month bucket host, still a bug. I see that bug was reported as an issue with link to how to correct. That's great. And it looks as though an answer was given that said the area it involves was going to change soon. What more is there to worry about?

 

And that's all small stuff:

 

How about that new code? Anyone been following HPDL's Git? IMO it's a little much, I would scale back some of the changes and rethink it a bit, However - its freaking good stuff going on. 100% F*#@ing great. All the new code is modern and following what standards we do have for PHP.  I guarantee its faster, better efficient, and has a long term future.

 

So speaking of code and future, as a result of the new code base changes, every addon currently available will not work without being rewritten. But so what? I rewrite over 80% of things I find in the addons section anyway. osC has kept the core the same for far too long, and much of the reason has probably been to satisfy those who rely on the addons, or those who do not want to see a more modular way of installing addons. (You cant charge as much to push a $button).

 

Its well past time to change core. Everyone knows it. There's those that welcome the change, then there's those that will bitch and cry-baby about it. In creating the responsive community edition, we've pretty much seen that. If the main core would have changed - what - 5 or 6 years ago, people would have bitched about their addons not working then, and devs would have cried about loosing business, but you know what? That would have been then, and now would look a lot different. Inevitably things are going to look different. 

 

Good luck to osC, its great, and it always will be. One way or another.


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So speaking of code and future, as a result of the new code base changes, every addon currently available will not work without being rewritten. But so what? I rewrite over 80% of things I find in the addons section anyway. osC has kept the core the same for far too long, and much of the reason has probably been to satisfy those who rely on the addons, or those who do not want to see a more modular way of installing addons.

Exactly so.

As low as 80% ;) ???!!?

 

Some of those old addons are very good in idea, but in execution are poor, some extremely poor.

I can't remember the last time I used an addon from the addons area, that just worked out of the box.

Maybe one of FWRs kiss things?

 

(You cant charge as much to push a $button).

Bang on. There are loads of people who charge a fortune to install addons where the addon needs 20 files amended.

The end result of my vision stops this. Has already been stopped a lot.

 

Let's make it so that developers have to be certified. They have to write code that is secure, non-invasive and works out of the box.

 

Its well past time to change core. Everyone knows it. There's those that welcome the change, then there's those that will bitch and cry-baby about it. In creating the responsive community edition, we've pretty much seen that. If the main core would have changed - what - 5 or 6 years ago, people would have bitched about their addons not working then, and devs would have cried about loosing business, but you know what? That would have been then, and now would look a lot different. Inevitably things are going to look different.

Amen!


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As low as 80% ;) ???!!?

Not really, but trying to be modest. I actually haven't used anything without modifying it, but give 20% for the idea and/or starting point.

 

Let's make it so that developers have to be certified. They have to write code that is secure, non-invasive and works out of the box.

Exactly! Better for the entire community.


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Let's make it so that developers have to be certified. They have to write code that is secure, non-invasive and works out of the box.

Exactly! Better for the entire community.

 

 

Eh, I'm not sure that certifying developers is workable. The barriers introduced to membership in this club might discourage a lot of good people from even trying to contribute to the community. Perhaps it would be better for the community to examine individual contributions, and if they pass muster (within a reasonable length of time) and the developer is cooperative in fixing any problems found, certify each contribution. A certification might be good only for a specific osC release, and would have to be redone for new osC releases (and PHP upgrades). The developer would gain the right to display some sort of seal or certificate that they have one or more certified contributions, but would have to be honest about how many uncertified contributions they also have. Let the market decide who is good.

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Let's make it so that developers have to be certified. They have to write code that is secure, non-invasive and works out of the box.

 

 

Exactly! Better for the entire community.

 

You mean certified to submit addons? if so i think that might be a bad idea as why write modules for OSC if you have to become certified you may as well write for one of the others and be paid for the addon.

if anyone can submit a addon but it is checked before being released in the addons section that would be a better idea as it will promote the community spirit (maybe have a uncertified section for those who like the addon and can later verify it as safe or tweak/better it (i.e have certified people who can say 'YES' this one okay for release to the general public))

 

or maybe have flags in the addons section like.

certified  .. check

and have a number of users who are able to verify a addon as conforming to code.

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Eh, I'm not sure that certifying developers is workable.

Sure it is.

It already is in place.

 

http://addons.oscommerce.com/category?search=paypal

 

Top 8 results...

 

The point is to give Users of addons some idea of the calibre of coder they are dealing with. Certified is better than not.


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Coming from the client-end having "certified" devs would be extremely useful.  You spend enough time combing through the code in modules and you learn who codes well and who doesn't, but that takes a LOT of trial and error and at least a workable knowledge of LAMP stack.

 

Certified Developers would be clearly noted in the add-ons page.

 

Certified Developers would have more details about project contracting, availability, specialties.

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Sure it is.

It already is in place.

Those are all written by Harold. It's easy to be certified when you are the one doing the certifying. :)

 

If this were to become reality, then the practice of having open addons, where anyone can upload, would have to stop. Or only the uploads uploaded by the certified programmer would be marked as certified. That would probably cause updates to slow or be stopped.

 

This idea,or something similar has been proposed before. If it could be made to work, it would be great. But the question of who will certify the addons has always been a problem. To that end, I hereby put my vote in for Gary. :P

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I'm pretty sure there are other Certified addons that are not Haralds - I don't know how they got certified or who did the certification.

 

It's certainly not something I'd want to take on (looking at all addons individually).

Edited by burt

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If this were to become reality, then the practice of having open addons, where anyone can upload, would have to stop. Or only the uploads uploaded by the certified programmer would be marked as certified. That would probably cause updates to slow or be stopped.

 

Totally agree if you look at some of the 'think out of the box' addons would they ever have been created if only CERTIFIED uploaders were writing them?

Surely if they are that good then they are not going to be sitting there coding addons for free that they will never use themselves, I would say a large majority of addons only exist because the developer of the addon needed that feature for themselves and wrote it and then shared it (even though it may not be the best coded addon and as someone above said they then download it tweak/fix it and uploaded a revised version).

 

take this facility away and as @@Jack_mcs says That would probably cause updates to slow or be stopped and I would add limited (would all the various shipping company modules from all over the world been there if the Certified developers were only in one or two countries.

Edited by ShaGGy

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You mean certified to submit addons? if so i think that might be a bad idea as why write modules for OSC if you have to become certified you may as well write for one of the others and be paid for the addon.

 

I think there are a lot of opinions on what certified developers could mean. When I think about it, I don't feel as if it should be a requirement for submitting an addon, Anyone should still be able to write and submit an addon.

 

I think of it more in terms that if you are certified, then that is something you can use to show the public that you know what you are doing with osCommerce code and they can have confidence in dealing with you on a commercial basis.

 

A lot of things could define that certification, and if you/your dev company starts to do sloppy work, there could be a revocation of your certification.

 

It would also help to have that little badge in the addons as well. Rather than have to click on @@Jack_mcs username and see a list of his downloads after I first find one of his downloads so I can click the name, I can just "sort by certified" and there are all his addons in the list.


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I think there are a lot of opinions on what certified developers could mean. When I think about it, I don't feel as if it should be a requirement for submitting an addon, Anyone should still be able to write and submit an addon.

 

I think of it more in terms that if you are certified, then that is something you can use to show the public that you know what you are doing with osCommerce code and they can have confidence in dealing with you on a commercial basis.

 

A lot of things could define that certification, and if you/your dev company starts to do sloppy work, there could be a revocation of your certification.

 

It would also help to have that little badge in the addons as well. Rather than have to click on @@Jack_mcs username and see a list of his downloads after I first find one of his downloads so I can click the name, I can just "sort by certified" and there are all his addons in the list.

This is precisely how I saw it. No change to addons as they are already done, but certain people who produce quality work get a Certified badge.


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@@ShaGGy

 

In addition, we'll have a compatibility module available for those upgrading that will wrap removed functions (eg database) and constants (eg filenames, database names) to the new framework changes. This should allow v2.3 modules to continue to work with v2.4.

 

 

As mentioned, there will be compatibility. IMO - HPDL has been too generous in insuring addons have stayed compatible from version to version.

 

Without a compatibility layer the minimal changes I foresee needing to be done to make an old addon work:

 

MySQL queries  - They need to be changed to take advantage of the PDO driver. End result - faster & more secure.

HTML functions - rather than tep_draw_*  it would change to HTML:: or OSCOM:: - End result - can easily be overwritten, extended, or replaced by including your own class.

Defines  - No more more FILENAME_WHATEVER or TABLE_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH - End result, less processing by the program.

 

Other than those things, the older addons can still follow the same installation procedures as before. However, with the newer framework, we wont have to hack the core and as a result we will probably start seeing better addons. I think that alone will attract more users, both shop owners and dev's.

 

Ive worked on tons of osC sites through the years, I was inspired to become a web dev thanks to osC and a couple members on this forum, but I tell you - I'm also tired of hacking at core to do things. I try not too - I extend and bend where I can -  The new code base - beautiful - write a class, upload it, watch things change. BAM!

 

If an end user doesn't want to use the program because it changed, they can and will find another software. But if the software doesn't change, they still can and will find another software.

 

Really, osCommerce has been great through the years, your not going to find an ecommerce software with such a broad range of server compatibility and customization ready base. Look how many forks have branched off of osC. But now what are those forks doing? Nothing really, they have reached EOL - all the 500 addons they pulled straight from the contribution section has caught up with them. Now they are all outdated and osC is the only one that has advanced its code base so as not to get outdated, yet it also seems like osC is the one that has took the most crap. Can't win for loose they say.

 

Anyway, as all can see, there is going to be compatibility, there is all the effort of the community build rolled in, and there is new modern code. Compare the new code to other open source software out there - Ive been reading it for 2 weeks straight. Its well ahead of anything right now. PHP7 - no problem, 2 years from now - PHP10  - probably good to go there as well.


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Gradual...

 

Is that not "commit by commit" over the past 2.5 years?

 

You cannot get more gradual than that.

If a user doesn't want/like a certain commit...don't incorporate into the version you are hacking at...

 

The whole point is this;

 

instead of 5 years between releases...it's now 5 days or 5 hours or even 5 minutes.

Can't handle it? Use GOLD.


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@@kymation :thumbsup:

 

Yes that is, Ive played with it and got so far, but I think its more powerful than just what that example shows - reading through the latest classes I see where it has actions and execution. I would to see how it would handle a page, like contact us for example, I want to see how it would route the output after the submit form action is initiated.

 

Kind of like was started here:

https://github.com/haraldpdl/oscommerce2/tree/24-checkout/includes/apps/info


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@@GLWalker  I haven't gotten that far into it either. I did add a tab to the admin/orders page, using the hooks provided by the Paypal App, but I just used that to inject an action handler into the top of the page. It appears that there are better ways to do that with the hooks class. Sorry I can't be more help.

 

Regards

Jim


See my profile for a list of my addons and ways to get support.

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Is it possible we can get an example page using the hooks/apps? Preferably something like the contact_us. I would like to see how the actions would be constructed in this method.

 

I see code for an execute action but can quite figure out how to trigger it.

Documentation will be provided when the release is made. Until then, check out the OSC\OM\MessageStack class used in the Admin. It sets a few watches with anonymous functions, for example when Session->StartAfter->execute is called (in OSC\OM\SessionAbstract::start()).

 

"execute" is the default function that is executed on call - it's defined in the MessageStack class due to a custom function being defined with an anonymous function.

 

Apps will be able to define their watches in their main meta json file. The same could be done with:

 

{
  "modules": {
    "Hooks": {
      "Admin/Session": {
        "StartAfter": "Module\\Hooks\\Admin\\SomeClass"
      }
    }
  }
}
When Session->StartAfter is called, it will execute OSC\Apps\VENDOR\APPNAME\Module\Hooks\Admin\SomeClass::execute(). Passing parameters along will come in the next update.

 

It's also possible to add a module file in includes/Module/Hooks however this method will more than likely be removed (or kept for the core only) so add-ons must then be developed as an App.

Edited by Harald Ponce de Leon

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I would slow down on major overhaul and introduce a number of gradual changes that head towards the end goal so as users can upgrade and adapt to the changes.

Stay on v2.3.x then, it lives by that rule. v2.3.x will continue to work after v2.4.x is production ready. No one is forcing you to upgrade as soon as that release is pushed out.

 

v2.3.x will receive an end of life once v2.4.x is production ready, with a really long term for security updates. This will be announced when v2.4.x is production ready.

 

v2.4 is progress!

 

v3.0 will hit you hard in the face :P It's more javascripty because of modern user interface design principles. People with javascript disabled should surf the web on a WAP device and complain about life in some WAP optimized forum out there.


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