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psylencer

Online Retail Buying Syndicates

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Hi Guys,

 

I was thinking of starting an organisation to well..organize online traders in a way that has been done successfully with bricks and mortar retailers. Strangely, I can not find anything or anyone whom currenlty perform this function for online retailers.

 

I actually came from a Wholesaler and Vendor background. I've seen bricks and mortar buying groups work very effectively to gain cheaper prices. WHolesalers love doing business with these groups because it allows access to a large volume of stores, without the hastle of dealing with each one individually. Now before you all say "Thats just a buying gorup - Its been done before", my idea is different because it will perform many more functions than that of a regular buying group and is specifically for online retailers.

 

Im in Australia and find that many suppliers and vendors will have nothing to do with you if you are an online retailer. My idea is creat a sort of managing body which will perform a number of functions on behalf of its online retailers as well as suppliers and manufacturers.

 

•Perform the usual functions of a buying group based on product demand.

 

• Negotiate deals with Vendors previously out of reach of online retailers. Some sort of pricing control will need to be implimented. It is sad but true that many Wholesalers at least here in Australia feel big business will boycott their business if it products they make or supply appear online. THis is due to the way online retailers generally spam the price of products. Bricks and Mortar retailers generally threaten wholesalers and vendors that they will not buy from them any more in they continue to deal with online retailers. This in turn results in online retailers being locked out of business with the wholesaler or getting far inflated pricing. I have an idea which I think will work here. More detail later

 

• Provide forums and feedback and ratings on Wholesalers, Chinese manfucaturers, Suppliers etc. <--THere are a lot of good ones out there. Unfortunately, due to the size of most online retailers, dealing with them involves a large element of risk.

 

• Provide a means of reviewing and rating Manufacturers both locally and around the world. (The reverse could be done FOR suppliers etc. to rate and provide feedback on retailers -trusted retailers etc.)

 

• Allow users to create -Sub-Syndicates, grouping together to negotiate bigger deals and cheaper prices on particular products from suppliers/manufacturers.

 

• Provide a means of providing feedback as to what products are moving in OUR/THEIR market. Separated into categories displaying volume of units sold. THis would be done through a datafeed from members. Naturally no confidential information will be included in the Semi-Anonymous Datafeed (price sold for retailers name etc), simply product model, date and volume moved. Over time, we will be able to produce detailed market analysis, Moving Averages etc. From here, the buying gorup as a whole will make decisions as to which products to sources and who to source them from. THere's a lot of potential for this part of the idea, however it will, given, be very difficult to manage. I do however have a few ideas though.

 

• Pool advertising resources for products bought through the buying group to push product specific advertisments.

 

• Return rebates negotiated through buying deals back to members as a dividend ever quarter.

 

There is more to it than that, but just thought I spark a discussion and see what kind of feedback you guys have on the idea.

 

Dan Herlihy

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Hi Guys,

 

I was thinking of starting an organisation to well..organize online traders in a way that has been done successfully with bricks and mortar retailers. Strangely, I can not find anything or anyone whom currenlty perform this function for online retailers.

 

I actually came from a Wholesaler and Vendor background. I've seen bricks and mortar buying groups work very effectively to gain cheaper prices. WHolesalers love doing business with these groups because it allows access to a large volume of stores, without the hastle of dealing with each one individually. Now before you all say "Thats just a buying gorup - Its been done before", my idea is different because it will perform many more functions than that of a regular buying group and is specifically for online retailers.

 

Im in Australia and find that many suppliers and vendors will have nothing to do with you if you are an online retailer. My idea is creat a sort of managing body which will perform a number of functions on behalf of its online retailers as well as suppliers and manufacturers.

 

•Perform the usual functions of a buying group based on product demand.

 

• Negotiate deals with Vendors previously out of reach of online retailers. Some sort of pricing control will need to be implimented. It is sad but true that many Wholesalers at least here in Australia feel big business will boycott their business if it products they make or supply appear online. THis is due to the way online retailers generally spam the price of products. Bricks and Mortar retailers generally threaten wholesalers and vendors that they will not buy from them any more in they continue to deal with online retailers. This in turn results in online retailers being locked out of business with the wholesaler or getting far inflated pricing. I have an idea which I think will work here. More detail later

 

• Provide forums and feedback and ratings on Wholesalers, Chinese manfucaturers, Suppliers etc. <--THere are a lot of good ones out there. Unfortunately, due to the size of most online retailers, dealing with them involves a large element of risk.

 

• Provide a means of reviewing and rating Manufacturers both locally and around the world. (The reverse could be done FOR suppliers etc. to rate and provide feedback on retailers -trusted retailers etc.)

 

• Allow users to create -Sub-Syndicates, grouping together to negotiate bigger deals and cheaper prices on particular products from suppliers/manufacturers.

 

• Provide a means of providing feedback as to what products are moving in OUR/THEIR market. Separated into categories displaying volume of units sold. THis would be done through a datafeed from members. Naturally no confidential information will be included in the Semi-Anonymous Datafeed (price sold for retailers name etc), simply product model, date and volume moved. Over time, we will be able to produce detailed market analysis, Moving Averages etc. From here, the buying gorup as a whole will make decisions as to which products to sources and who to source them from. THere's a lot of potential for this part of the idea, however it will, given, be very difficult to manage. I do however have a few ideas though.

 

• Pool advertising resources for products bought through the buying group to push product specific advertisments.

 

• Return rebates negotiated through buying deals back to members as a dividend ever quarter.

 

There is more to it than that, but just thought I spark a discussion and see what kind of feedback you guys have on the idea.

 

Dan Herlihy

Hi Dan

 

It sounds interesting to say the least.

 

In Australia, shipping internationally is one big killer.

 

Have you thought about logistics? Where would the wholesalers ship to, and how would the products then get to the on line retailer? Would the buying group become a drop shipper for members?


The Coopco Underwear Shop

 

If you live to be 100 years of age, that means you have lived for 36,525 days. Don't waste another, there aren't many left.

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Hi Dan

 

It sounds interesting to say the least.

 

In Australia, shipping internationally is one big killer.

 

Have you thought about logistics? Where would the wholesalers ship to, and how would the products then get to the on line retailer? Would the buying group become a drop shipper for members?

 

Im assuming you mean FOB shipping TO Australia? Products would be delivered to a Distribution Center in Australia and then the RETAILER would have to arrange pickup from there.

 

I'd welcome any feedback on that.

 

Dan

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One more thing, this does not need to be Australia specific. As most of the idea involves a system, there is no reason the same could not be done for any country providing there is someone(s) to manage the ground work, negotiate with local supplers, recruit retailers etc.

 

Dan

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One more thing, this does not need to be Australia specific. As most of the idea involves a system, there is no reason the same could not be done for any country providing there is someone(s) to manage the ground work, negotiate with local supplers, recruit retailers etc.

 

Dan

I meant shipping costs into and out of Australia. So if other countries would need to have their own (or possibly integrated) system.

 

There are some companies that provide a distribution centre for other companies (I am thinking of one courier company in particular).

 

It is an interesting concept that would be worthwhile persuing.


The Coopco Underwear Shop

 

If you live to be 100 years of age, that means you have lived for 36,525 days. Don't waste another, there aren't many left.

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Im glad you think so Leslie. Shipping is certainly something I will add to the list to consider. What I might do is start a new forum with threads to discuss all the issues we face as Online retailers suppliers and the resolutions we can come up for implementation as a group.

 

Thanks for the ffedback.

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Im glad you think so Leslie. Shipping is certainly something I will add to the list to consider. What I might do is start a new forum with threads to discuss all the issues we face as Online retailers suppliers and the resolutions we can come up for implementation as a group.

 

Thanks for the ffedback.

You're welcome.

 

Maybe this and the new one should be in general chit chat?


The Coopco Underwear Shop

 

If you live to be 100 years of age, that means you have lived for 36,525 days. Don't waste another, there aren't many left.

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You're welcome.

 

Maybe this and the new one should be in general chit chat?

 

I really don't prefer to use PMs, but just to let you know who I am thinking of:

 

**Filtered***

 

 

I wonder if someone like Deal Direct http://www.dealsdirect.com.au/ could do the ground work

 

 

Just two thoughts.

 

BR

Les

 

Thanks, *** did the warehousing for the last company I was at. They are an expensive, inflexible solution, despite their claims. I have a feeling they may be the only alternative untill the Association could afford to do this themselves.

 

Deals Direct are a question mark. They are an online retailer hell bent on squashing competition. I had to ditch a few of my own accounts with the last company I was with because they threatend to cease trading if we supplied to their competitors. Of course the small guys lost that battle. I had to jack up wholesale pricing to make it impossible to compete with them.

 

oo.com.au are guilt of exactly the same. Yes it is illegal, but very much hard to convict given the disposable income of online retailers and the fact in order to do so means burning valuable bridges with suppliers.

 

Deals Direct and oo.com.au are the coles and woolies of Online retail. They generally have no problems gaining access to brands due to the size of their ordering and buying power, however their access to many products is, given, limited.

 

Dan

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Last time I investigating importing goods to Australia the whole customs issue was a real barrier.

 

Plus you have the whole issue of payment. Many companies would only deal with someone who could pay with an American Credit Card.


Kym

Projects Director @ ozEworks.com

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Last time I investigating importing goods to Australia the whole customs issue was a real barrier.

 

Plus you have the whole issue of payment. Many companies would only deal with someone who could pay with an American Credit Card.

What do you mean an American credit card? I find my aussie cards are acceptable anywhere.

 

With cutoms, it depends on what you are importing.


The Coopco Underwear Shop

 

If you live to be 100 years of age, that means you have lived for 36,525 days. Don't waste another, there aren't many left.

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Many companies would only deal with someone who could pay with an American Credit Card.

 

Wholesale and import with credit card, american or not? First time I hear about this ! You can make a L/C or T/T agreement, but I don't think that there are any deals via credit card !

 

By the way, I'm in the (offline) import business, located in Greece, offices and warehouse in china, so I like this idea, there is ofcourse the logistic problem, but could be solved doing a start on a continent basis, i.e Europe, Australia, North America etc and to see from there on.

 

If anyone needs help or information about importing something from China and custom formalities in EU I'll be glad to help. There are also some other "tricks" to save taxes etc

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There are some companies that provide a distribution centre for other companies (I am thinking of one courier company in particular).

 

It is an interesting concept that would be worthwhile persuing.

 

Leslie, yes, I know the company, but they are really expensive, there are many other possibilities to arrange co-shippments.

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What do you mean an American credit card? I find my aussie cards are acceptable anywhere.

 

With cutoms, it depends on what you are importing.

A lot of companies I dealt with when I lived in Australia would only accept an American Credit Card. I guess if you are dealing with China you are probably ok. I was dealing with other countries.

 

You will probably find that you need a Customs Agent when it comes to actually importing the goods.


Kym

Projects Director @ ozEworks.com

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A lot of companies I dealt with when I lived in Australia would only accept an American Credit Card. I guess if you are dealing with China you are probably ok. I was dealing with other countries.

 

You will probably find that you need a Customs Agent when it comes to actually importing the goods.

 

 

These are the companies Im talking about. We need a central means of testing them and verifying them. There is nothing out there. Nothing. I want a means of finding oput if these guys are legit! I've got the cash to import, I just cant afford to loose it on nothing.

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These are the companies Im talking about. We need a central means of testing them and verifying them. There is nothing out there. Nothing. I want a means of finding oput if these guys are legit! I've got the cash to import, I just cant afford to loose it on nothing.

 

 

I still don't understand what this has to do with CreditCards ! To import something you need

 

1) The producer or exporter in an other country and an agreement with him

2) A shipping company if you have an FOB term, if you buy CIF then it's the sellers choice

3) An insurance company for the shipment (again if term FOB)

4) A bank to transfer the money (or to issue the L/C, thats better f you don't know or trust your supplier)

5) Somebody in your country to do the custom

 

If you want to be more sure to get what you ordered, you can include into the L/C the term of an attestation from a company who is checking and counting etc. Or you can go your self to check

 

What are you dealing with? What do you sell?

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I still don't understand what this has to do with CreditCards ! To import something you need

 

1) The producer or exporter in an other country and an agreement with him

2) A shipping company if you have an FOB term, if you buy CIF then it's the sellers choice

3) An insurance company for the shipment (again if term FOB)

4) A bank to transfer the money (or to issue the L/C, thats better f you don't know or trust your supplier)

5) Somebody in your country to do the custom

 

If you want to be more sure to get what you ordered, you can include into the L/C the term of an attestation from a company who is checking and counting etc. Or you can go your self to check

 

What are you dealing with? What do you sell?

 

MANY MANY foreign traders require unverifiable forms of payment processesing. Anyone that has tried to order from china will know they are regularly asked to transfer funds via Western Union or credit cards which originate from OS (China or US). Im sure many of these traders may be legit. But which ones are and which ones arn't?

 

Part of the problem here lies in the fact that they don't trust you and you don't trust them. Hence the transaction doesn't go through and you opt for a perhaps more expensive local solution. If only they could verify us and visa versa.

 

I guess this was my point. If only there were a means of looking up the credibility of wholesalers. Im sure you've all seen chinese ads for "Branded" products which are way too cheap to contemplate. Are they really too cheap, or are these guys for real? has anyone had experience with these people before? Has anyone been burnt? Was the software legit? Was it a fake? etc.etc.

 

It would be nice to look up "manufacturers" for warnings, feedback etc. Some come and go so fast it is currently impossible to tell whats going on.

 

Sorry for the confusion.

 

Im own a reasonably successful CE online shop. Hence the immense difficulty i have with Aussie suppliers.

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I've just registered the following domains :

 

nasora.com.au (main site for the moment)

nasora.com

eusora.com

esora.co.uk

 

I've also registered a PTY. LTD Australian company called NASORA (National Australian Syndicated Online Retailers Association).

 

Im guessing the Australian arm will be a test case, however once established, I would expect to find someone to take this on overseas (which is why I've registered domains for Europe (both a .com and .co.uk) and the united states (.com)

 

I will personally code, manage and fund this for as long as I can or the need exists.

 

I've posted a mission statement to Nasora.com.au. Feel free to post feedback there.

 

Anyone interested in helping with this? If not I'll do it myslef however it certainly wouldn't hurt to have someone to bounce ideas/logic off .

 

Dan

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MANY MANY foreign traders require unverifiable forms of payment processesing. Anyone that has tried to order from china will know they are regularly asked to transfer funds via Western Union or credit cards which originate from OS (China or US).

 

Part of the problem here lies in the fact that they don't trust you and you don't trust them.

 

To ask for Western Union Payment is for me a clear sign to start to be VERY suspicious. Chinese companies do not like to sell without invoices, they need the highest possible invoices because of their tax refund politic.

 

Yes the problem i that nobody trust the other one, and this problem didn't appear since the online business.

 

I think the solution is not to look for somebody who gives some "certificates" to some exporters, but to use the old and safest way of all, the way that got invented in the international business to solve the "trust" problem, and to use an L/C, where you can include any terms you want.

 

 

I'm buying for over 10 years now from China, and just 2-3 times a case of fraud

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To ask for Western Union Payment is for me a clear sign to start to be VERY suspicious. Chinese companies do not like to sell without invoices, they need the highest possible invoices because of their tax refund politic.

 

Yes the problem i that nobody trust the other one, and this problem didn't appear since the online business.

 

I think the solution is not to look for somebody who gives some "certificates" to some exporters, but to use the old and safest way of all, the way that got invented in the international business to solve the "trust" problem, and to use an L/C, where you can include any terms you want.

 

 

I'm buying for over 10 years now from China, and just 2-3 times a case of fraud

 

Sorry I missed the L/C part. Im not familiar with the acronym. ??

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Sorry I missed the L/C part. Im not familiar with the acronym. ??

 

L/C = letter of credit.

 

It works like this:

 

Buyer ----->BuyerBank -----> L/C -----> SellerBank ------> Seller

 

Each one has to trust just to his bank and the banks to each other. Because banks also don't do this, there can be many banks involved.

 

The buyerbanks pay the money after goods arrived, and the seller knows he will get the money after he send the goods

 

L/C can be "at sight" = immediately payment or to have a time target i.e. 3 months

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L/C = letter of credit.

 

It works like this:

 

Buyer ----->BuyerBank -----> L/C -----> SellerBank ------> Seller

 

Each one has to trust just to his bank and the banks to each other. Because banks also don't do this, there can be many banks involved.

 

The buyerbanks pay the money after goods arrived, and the seller knows he will get the money after he send the goods

 

L/C can be "at sight" = immediately payment or to have a time target i.e. 3 months

 

The case i mentioned before decline the offer of escrow services. By the sounds of it they were dodgy. Pitty because they had some great stuff.

 

Dan

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Pitty because they had some great stuff.

 

 

Are you sure that the had ANY stuff?

 

/*I've also a container full of new macbook's, just 95USD each, give me your CC or just send me the money ! But please ONLY via Western Union.*/

 

Dan, that's NOT serious trading !

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Could you explain how you propose to approach wholesalers on behalf of the group?

 

Hi Sunny

 

I think that we don't need to invent the bicycle again here, just because we do a different way of selling.

 

The need of "smaller" sellers to buy directly from the source, at lower prices, but in quantities and conditions similar to the domestic market exist since ever. Doesn't matter if they sell "on" or "off" line.

 

It's a matter of communication and organization to solve the issue, that means to transfer "traditional" solutions to the specific characteristika of online sellers.

 

You can approach anyone on behalf of any group, if you know the targets and restrictions of each group member.

 

There is of course a huge list of open questions, but it is for sure worth to work on them

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Dan,

 

Could you explain how you propose to approach wholesalers on behalf

of the group?

 

I intend on approaching wholesalers in the same way I have from Business Development Role in the Distributor I used to work for. Basically, countless phonecalls, followed by meetings in suits and ties to explain the benefits of joining such a group. Contacts internationally will perform a similar role. I would envisage the role of BDE to be a paid role within the organization. Funded initially of donations and small yearly membership fees. Eventually funded from rebates paid back to NASORA through the rebate scheme.

 

Going forward, I envisage NASORA membership to be a sought after from wholesalers as a means of improving their sales without compromising on human resource needs or market viability.

 

It is a good question though, and something I would love to discuss if you have any further thoughts on what I've just said.

 

Dan

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