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Xtreme-Agency

Just another compaints thread

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yes oscommerce code is not very smart to that extent

 

 

however the answer is so simple.

 

 

1. just add a status field in the countries and zones tables

 

2. modify your query in order to add: where status ='1'

 

3. modify the admin page to be able to maintain the status, like it is now for the product.

 

 

 

i really hoped the core developers would have at least did that in the MS3 after one year of development but no . from the latest cvs i saw . nothing like this appears

 

 

core developers do not really seem to listen to users.

 

too much the head in their .... designing new icons for ms3 instead of adding real functionalities....


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core developers do not really seem to listen to users.

 

Yes we do listen to users... however the ones that provide constuctive critism and offer to help rather than just complaining about everything generally get more of a response ;)

 

too much the head in their .... designing new icons for ms3 instead of adding real functionalities....

 

Dont forget the time we spend listening to people complain about everything and never offering anything back.... :rolleyes: :-"


Mark Evans

osCommerce Monkey & Lead Guitarist for "Sparky + the Monkeys" (Album on sale in all good record shops)

 

---------------------------------------

Software is like sex: It's better when it's free. (Linus Torvalds)

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As far as I am concerned, basic functionalities like status fields should by done by the core developer.

 

it provides data integrity to the all application and shows the level of comittment to adhere to accounting standards. As soons as you sell something you better be sure that you can:

 

account for it,

report it

and not delete it

 

 

those standards must be appleid everytime by the core developpers team. you can not expect someone to do a contribution for it and update it everytime you change something in the code or release an uncompatible upgrade.

 

 

what is lacking acutally in oscommerce is basic standards:

 

 

+ do not allow to delete products, products options, attributes because if someone ordered something , you loose your data integrity.

 

+ do not allow to detete countries, put an active/inactive flag instead.

 

+ do not delete customers. classify them as active or inactive. (especially if they ordered already something....... )

 

+ add a freaking cost field. how can a store owner know his margins and rentability in it store if he can not answer some simple questions: do i make money, what are my margins?

 

 

thus as I was saying , core developers do not listen to store owners. you can state that you listen to all complaints. might be the case .

 

but it is NOT up to a contributions to setup the standards for the core developers. the core developers must understand the business and adopt business practices which will allow their application to become a standard.

 

 

have a look at sites like oracle financials, accpac, and take the time to read the white papers on business process and data quality

 

(do not worry it is not a commercial advertisement. their application is totally out

oscommerce league)

 

take the time to read how a controlled business process will allow a store manager to know what is happening without deleting everything like in oscommerce.


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As far as I am concerned, basic functionalities like status fields should by done by the core developer.

 

it provides data integrity to the all application and shows the level of comittment to adhere to accounting standards. As soons as you sell something you better be sure that you can:

 

account for it,

report it

and not delete it

those standards must be appleid everytime by the core developpers team. you can not expect someone to do a contribution for it and update it everytime you change something in the code or release an uncompatible upgrade.

what is lacking acutally in oscommerce is basic standards:

+ do not allow to delete products, products options, attributes because if someone ordered something , you loose your data integrity.

 

+ do not allow to detete countries, put an active/inactive flag instead.

 

+ do not delete customers. classify them as active or inactive. (especially if they ordered already something....... )

 

+ add a freaking cost field. how can a store owner know his margins and rentability in it store if he can not answer some simple questions: do i make money, what are my margins?

thus as I was saying , core developers do not listen to store owners.  you can state that you listen to all complaints. might be the case .

 

but it is NOT up to a contributions to setup the standards for the core developers. the core developers must understand the business and adopt business practices which will allow their application to become a standard.

have a look at sites like oracle financials, accpac,  and take the time to read the white papers on business process and data quality

 

(do not worry it is not a commercial advertisement. their application is totally out

oscommerce league)

 

take the time to read how a controlled business process will allow a store manager to know what is happening without deleting everything like in oscommerce.

 

 

You may have noticed the absence of a "refund" section on this forum.

This is open source which you get for free.

 

If you want guaranteed certified business software, suggest you buy some.


Treasurer MFC

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it is not a question of having a refund.

 

 

it is a question of adopting good business practices for an application

 

what is the purpose of building an online store application if you allow to delete all the records ????

 

if you launch a project like this you might want at least to do it right.

 

 

It is in fact basic requests for an online store to manage accounting data.

 

yes, like it or not , as soon as you sell something to someone else, you are now accountable for everything you do with the funds and the records by law.....

 

It may be criticism for you but it is very basic requirements to the fiscal inspector who will come to audit your books if you have a business. thus better not delete everything......

 

Need to stop thinking as a developer but put you in the shoes of the business owner who has reporting and accounting to do.


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it is not a question of having a refund.

it is a question of adopting good business practices for an application

 

what is the purpose of building an online store application if you allow to delete all the records ????

 

if you launch a project like this you might want at least to do it right.

It is in fact basic requests for an online store to manage accounting data.

 

yes, like it or not , as soon as you sell something to someone else, you are now accountable for everything you do with the funds and the records by law.....

 

It may be criticism for you but it is very basic requirements to the fiscal inspector who will come to audit your books if you have a business. thus better not delete everything......

 

Need to stop thinking as a developer but put you in the shoes of the business owner who has reporting and accounting to do.

 

 

osc at no time requires you to delete anything.


Treasurer MFC

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ask yourself this simple question:

 

 

Would you accept that at the end of the month your bank tells you :

 

oh , we just deleted a few records on your statement , because we made a mistake. we do not have a clue what it was thus we take $5000 on your account.

we do not do any receipt because we can not be bothered. who cares about a receipt anyway......

 

or worse : sorry we deleted your name, stupid mistake.... silly me

we do not have your name in our records. good bye, you just lost whatever you had on your account. sorry about that. happy new year, do you want to contribute to our funds save the whales??

 

 

or if you call your utility company : would you like to receive the answer

sorry my system does not allow me to edit the order you placed. i am going to debit your card for $3000 . i do not have the possibility to change the amount in my system........ god it is stupid system.....

 

 

how would you feel ???? reaal life examples

 

 

well that is how oscommerce works now. deleting everything is possible, editing an order is impossible

 

 

do you want to have to ever tell that to one of your client that everything was deleted ?????? i do not think so

 

 

it is not accounting, it is basic common business practices applied to a business...

 

 

online or not. !!!!!


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osc at no time requires you to delete anything.

 

 

 

oh yeah ? you must not be using the system. what do you do of great mind if you do want to sell only to Canada ???????

 

 

what do you do to all the country list ?????????????

 

what do you do with the states list ??????????

 

 

they will keep showing up in the current application.................


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oh yeah ? you must not be using the system.  what do you do of great mind if you do want to sell only to Canada ???????

what do you do to all the country list ?????????????

 

what do you do with the states list ??????????

they will keep showing up in the current application.................

 

ah, you want a change on the current functionality.

Suggest you issue a formal change request to your software supplier.


Treasurer MFC

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No worries.

 

It is a change in adopting basic common business practices by core developers which is needed.

 

We changed all those mistakes in all the development we do with oscommerce for our clients. and we run on a "business sensible" version.

 

but again it is not up to a contribution to adopt good business practices, the standards must be esteablisjed and the changes must be made at the core developers level.

 

 

you do not seem to understand. It is not a change in functionnality which is needed.

 

but maybe you used to work for companies like Enron or arthur andersen. in that case of course. it does not matter what the books said.

 

Just multiply revenue by 2 and decrease expenses by 50 % to show the stock exchange. cpa firm will certify it and we are good to go for another year of lavish expenses until we get caught...

 

 

ask yourself why there are so many contributions. if core application had common sense. they would not be there


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We changed all those mistakes in all the development we do with oscommerce for our clients. and we run on a "business sensible" version.

 

Ah now I see :)

 

We have problems because our code is wrong... you fix these but dont want to join in the community spirit by donating the code back :-"


Mark Evans

osCommerce Monkey & Lead Guitarist for "Sparky + the Monkeys" (Album on sale in all good record shops)

 

---------------------------------------

Software is like sex: It's better when it's free. (Linus Torvalds)

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No worries.

 

It is a change in adopting basic common business practices by core developers which is needed.

 

We changed all those mistakes in all the development we do with oscommerce for our clients. and we run on a "business sensible" version.

 

but again it is not up to a contribution to adopt good business practices, the standards must be esteablisjed and the changes must be made at the core developers level.

you do not seem to understand. It is not a change in functionnality which is needed.

 

but maybe you used to work for companies like  Enron or arthur andersen.  in that case of course. it does not matter what the books said.

 

Just multiply revenue by 2 and decrease expenses by 50 %  to show the stock exchange.  cpa firm will certify it and we are good to go for another year of lavish expenses until we get caught...

ask yourself why there are so many contributions. if core application had common sense. they would not be there

 

 

I have heard that from many users over the years "no, I do not want a change in functionality, I just want it different"

 

And that was for paid software with specs.


Treasurer MFC

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Amazing. ..

 

shut up and stop moaning you bloody loser, all you want is more and more, for petes sake its FREE!!!!!!!!!!


"because it'll hurt more"- the greatest film of all time?

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...and the team thinks I complain too much? :)

 

At least I give back by uploading contributions.

 

Xtreme-Agency -> feel free to fix whatever your complaining about and upload it to the contribution area. Then you'll be the osC hero that fixed MS2! If you don't want your clients (or don't trust yourself) with the delete button simply remove it. If you are bitching about the referential data integrity then create some simple code to deny delete unless there are no linked products/orders/categories.

 

So, the answer is simple: fix it then have a Coke and a smile :)

 

Bobby

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...and the team thinks I complain too much? :)

 

I didnt want to say anything ;)

 

I personally have nothing against critism... it all makes for a better end result.

 

At least I give back by uploading contributions. 

 

This is the way the open source spirit works... however Xtreme-Agency seems to think its acceptable to say... thanks for all your hard work... I have fixed all these things for my clients so haha... why dont you fix them.

 

So, the answer is simple: fix it then have a Coke and a smile :)

 

Thats the simple answer... my perferrerd answer is fix it then send me all your beer :)


Mark Evans

osCommerce Monkey & Lead Guitarist for "Sparky + the Monkeys" (Album on sale in all good record shops)

 

---------------------------------------

Software is like sex: It's better when it's free. (Linus Torvalds)

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Thats the simple answer... my perferrerd answer is fix it then send me all your beer 

Hey, we'll take care of shipping, sparky, you are in the EU - right ?

we just added Stella kegs to our list of products for those isolated few beertenders outside of Belgium. I'll gracefully donate the handling fee to osC :)


KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON

I do not use the responsive bootstrap version since i coded my responsive version earlier, but i have bought every 28d of code package to support burts effort and keep this forum alive (albeit more like on life support).

So if you are still here ? What are you waiting for ?!

 

Find the most frequent unique errors to fix:

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Thats the simple answer... my perferrerd answer is fix it then send me all your beer 

Well, I would complain, but who really cares?? :(

And as for beer, is that why osC is like it is, too much maybe?? :P

 

Just buggin ya....

 

And well not all can be pleased, as for Xtreme-Agency, if your think someone would benefit from the changes, and you want to mention them here, then they should be uploaded....remember the forum rules....besides it would be just a nice thing to do....

 

cheers,

 

Peter M.


Peter McGrath

-----------------------------

See my Profile (click here) for more information and to contact me for professional osCommerce support that includes SEO development, custom development and security implementation

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what is the purpose of building an online store application if you allow to delete all the records ????

 

if you launch a project like this you might want at least to do it right.

It is in fact basic requests for an online store to manage accounting data.

 

yes, like it or not , as soon as you sell something to someone else, you are now accountable for everything you do with the funds and the records by law.....

 

It may be criticism for you but it is very basic requirements to the fiscal inspector who will come to audit your books if you have a business. thus better not delete everything......

 

Need to stop thinking as a developer but put you in the shoes of the business owner who has reporting and accounting to do.

 

 

I have been in the business world over 25 years and I do understand what you are saying about accountability and records that will be acceptable in an audit. But ...

 

1. I have yet to see a web store application double as an accounting application. Oracle Financials, Accpac, etc are not web store applications, they are advanced accounting applications that also sell e-commerce packages that connect with their accounting packages. No matter what web store application you use, you will still need dedicated accounting software and/or a good accountant to generate the documentation needed to satisfy legal requirements.

 

2. Whether online or real world, shop owners that choose to cheat have ways of bypassing accountability measures built into their business tools. For example, I have seen them jam the detail tape roll in their cash register so that it didn't record sales. In OSC, no matter what you do to the front end, they can always go directly into mysql and delete records.

 

3. If the concern is about accidental deletions, there are confirmation steps before it is done. But ultimately, the store manager is expected to understand the consequences of actions taken, whether e-world or real world.

 

Further, before I found OSC, I used other costly web store applications and demo'd other open source ones. The extensibility of OSC (contributions) that you have criticized as evidence of shortcomings, is one of the key strengths that I was drawn to. Most of those contributions are specialty features, not core features. In most other web store applications you have to buy specialty features either from the software vendor or from third party sources.

 

While the core developers are a hard working team that I have come to respect, the community is the strength of OSC.


Rule #1: Without exception, backup your database and files before making any changes to your files or database.

Rule #2: Make sure there are no exceptions to Rule #1.

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what is the purpose of building an online store application if you allow to delete all the records ????

 

I'm going to take a stab at this. Sounds like jerky here accidently deleted some important information and can't get it back. So instead of blaming himself he'll just try and blame everyone here.

 

"Why didn't they just make it to where you can't delete the records, blah blah."

 

 

Is this true? If so ... STFU.


Remember what the Bible says: He who is without sin, cast the first rock. And I shall smoketh it.

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i just wanted two put my 2

oscommerce and the community is not only the greatest shopping cart i have seen but if the rest of the world was as dedicated helpful and selfless there would be no world hunger left.

it is amazing how a buissnessman can only depend on a program and not have backup of all his records way wee are not very smart are we

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I totally agree with Mr. Extreme.

 

If we take this a little further, it will be more obvious to everyone else that he's right.

 

What's the point of building an operating system if you allow the root user to delete everything? Unbelievable. Nobody smart will ever use an operating system when so little thought and planning has gone into the architecture.

 

Any decent operating system should treat you as if you don't know what you're doing. When you want to delete something, you should have to press a special key when you click delete, or else it'll just go into a Trash Bin where you have to delete it again. I can't be held responsible for deleting things that I shouldn't have deleted! That's why I bought a computer!

 

You shouldn't be able to run your car out of gas. What a silly design. If cars let you run them out of gas, then you can't use your car anymore. That's just nonsense. We should all have solar cars, because nobody ever turns the sun off. Don't worry about driving at night, because that's just dangerous. A safely designed car shouldn't let you drive when it's dark.

 

We should all use spoons because forks are too dangerous. McDonalds coffee cups should only be 1/2 full of cool coffee so that I don't burn myself as I drive down the road with the cup in my lap. I advocate mandatory helmets for pedestrians just in case the sky falls AND I DIDN'T BACK UP MY DATA BEFORE CLICKING DELETE.

 

Gotta go. I have to find my Erasermate pen to write out my rent check.

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If we take this a little further, it will be more obvious to everyone else that he's right.

 

The issue isnt the points he raised... the issue is him saying.... all these things are wrong and I have fixed them for my clients... why dont you fix them as well... Where is the community spirit in that :D


Mark Evans

osCommerce Monkey & Lead Guitarist for "Sparky + the Monkeys" (Album on sale in all good record shops)

 

---------------------------------------

Software is like sex: It's better when it's free. (Linus Torvalds)

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