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Not sure I can agree with that. Phoenix is the latest iteration of osCommerce by any definition. It is much more advanced than 2.3.4.1 considering the changes that have been made to its codebase. Hooks, modular functionality and layout, responsive design, PHP 7+ etc. Yes it has been around 5 years and the challenges I outlined above has continued to persist and continues to undermine the launch of each version, yet Gary and others (including you) have continued to support the project to our collective benefit despite homeground disadvantages! That fact 5 years has gone by is an absolute credit to Gary and others. Just the other day a 75 year old gentleman posted to this forum asking for help. He had installed 2.3.4 and appeared stuck. I hope not, but I reckon we lost him (just like we lose many others) when he was told he had installed the wrong version from cPanelx followed by the requisite elaborate explanation to instruct him which version to install and how to go about it. So I come to the forum after installing the official version to be told, don't do that, install the non-official version. This gentleman was someone who took the time to actually install osCommerce. As I said, there would be countless others in the market for a cart like osCommerce who are seeing the official dated, non-responsive, demo and choosing an alternative. We never even get a chance to speak to them and it is our own fault. Just imagine you turn up to a stadium with tickets to watch the official team play. You present your tickets and get told - yes that is the official team but they are really bad and out of shape. You really should see the other non-official team play, they are younger and much better and you will enjoy it more! You think to yourself - that can't be right so you go watch the official team play and are disappointed. You don't come back again. Why on earth are they selling tickets for the official team and why is the non-official team not the official team?! There is definitely a sizeable market for this type of shopping cart. Google proves it. The sheer number of websites built on osCommerce and comparable carts proves it. The market is large enough to sustain Phoenix if we fix some fundamental issues like I mentioned above. We do not need millions of members. yes, if we wanted that, things might need to change. But you need to crawl before you walk and right now perhaps crawling is what is needed so we can learn how to walk again. I definitely do not agree that the market is limited to just a few enthusiasts. Understandably given your tenure and clear passion for osCommerce, you are entitled to feeling jaded. However I hope you continue to support Phoenix with your add ons and passion. Peter

😂 So why is every other successful ecart doing the exact opposite? These days the main carts offer vertualy everthing as a stock install. The thinking here is outdated, the world has moved on. Phoenix either catches up or it will be nothing more than a play thing for a few die hard supporters. Only a had full of people use it and most of those are just playing with it. Just Google it! Even if it improves to 10,000 sites it will still be a bit player in the market. ecarts are NOT about the code it's about successfully marketing your product. Other understand this and have move the market place to another level.

You are right there. There are loads of members very few of which are helpers so it could have been, and should have been kept in the open public forum.

@14steve14If I would be H, I will eliminate all the team members (except Burt) and recruit new ones who want to contribute. For example, there are several members in the forum who write excellent addons that can be incorporated into the basic OSC package installed from the factory. Everyone can help as they can. Doing market research, testing and informing what is needed is also a way of contributing. Let's join efforts to move forward, I'm sure we agree on this

I'm not talking about Gary who is the only one who carries OSC on his shoulders. I'm talking about the other team members who are only there to defile. I don't quite agree with your approach Steve , a person from China who has just installed OSC and does not find a WeChat payment module available, leaves OSC and installs another ecommerce platform. Not having these modules pre-installed from the factory means that more than one billion people (or more) do not use OSC. You see this issue from another point of view, you who already have an established business should add that module to reach a billion new users. What I see is what must be be done to enlarge the OSC community. Best regards Valqui

I think we need a lot more than just PayPal the world has changed/is changing fast.