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#41
Posted 05 May 2003, 00:04
Reading is beneficial - Searching is enlightening
find answers at wiki.oscommerce.com/top
find answers at wiki.oscommerce.com/top
#42
Posted 05 May 2003, 00:19
Me fifth!!
I know I have broke a few rules - However, Since my telling off - I really now do see why these rules need to be enforced!!
I think we should be able to apply ourseleves to be limited moderators for long term useres like Kim, and Burt etc...
This would be really good!!
Warren
I know I have broke a few rules - However, Since my telling off - I really now do see why these rules need to be enforced!!
I think we should be able to apply ourseleves to be limited moderators for long term useres like Kim, and Burt etc...
This would be really good!!
Warren
#43
Posted 05 May 2003, 10:05
I too have noticed a lot of OSKOP replies. There is nothing worse than searching for an answer to a problem, finding someone else has also asked the same question but then finding the only reply is of a negative nature with no help given. As an average user of this forum its annoying, and find it amazing that people bother posting replies only to put someone in their place. Just my 2 cents.
They way forward?
I suggest a truce.
The guys who say they may cut down on posting - please don't. I, and I'm sure many others, have learnt a lot from you and it would be a shame to lose your knowledge and insight, please keep it up.
The people who sometimes bite - please don't. I'm sure it's frustrating for you and out of the amount of posts you read obviously some of them are going to get you mad. Ignore them if you think it's a dumb, misplaced or already been answered question. If you want to correct someone answer their question at the same time (or wait until someone has answered then point out posters error), thus killing two birds with one stone. Everybody's happy, the poster who now knows answer and the rules, you who have answered a question and corrected someone and future searchers who now have relevant information.
I'm just saying it how I see it in a hopefully constructive way.
They way forward?
I suggest a truce.
The guys who say they may cut down on posting - please don't. I, and I'm sure many others, have learnt a lot from you and it would be a shame to lose your knowledge and insight, please keep it up.
The people who sometimes bite - please don't. I'm sure it's frustrating for you and out of the amount of posts you read obviously some of them are going to get you mad. Ignore them if you think it's a dumb, misplaced or already been answered question. If you want to correct someone answer their question at the same time (or wait until someone has answered then point out posters error), thus killing two birds with one stone. Everybody's happy, the poster who now knows answer and the rules, you who have answered a question and corrected someone and future searchers who now have relevant information.
I'm just saying it how I see it in a hopefully constructive way.
#44
Posted 05 May 2003, 21:56
Im new to these forums, and although I probably don't have a right to say too much about the situation here, I tend to agree that this has not been the most friendly board I've been on. There are some REALLY great people here, and then there are others who should really keep quiet. I have accidentally broken the 'rules' on more than one occasion, although there is really no clear definition of the rules. I run my own large forums on liquidninjas.com, so I am no stranger to the BBS lifestyle. But we have a stick thread stating our sites rules in every forum. This makes it very clear.
To me, there is nothing more annoying than asking a serious question and getting an answer like 'go look yourself' or 'heres a link to this 50 page thread, go read through it all to get your partial-answer'. I've had seriously bad luck with the search engine on this forum as it almost never returns relavent results. Try searching on a contribution such as 'Newsletter'. Actually, searching for contribution links has been very difficult. Sometimes I cant find them in the contributions section, so I try searching the forums and almost never get the proper results. Exact phrase matching doesnt seem to work on this board.
Im not complaining, this board is filled with lots of great information. But there is always room for improvement, even with the best of sites. I beleive that a better search function and more clear-spoken rules would be a step in the right direction. In terms of peoples attitudes, there has always been a certain element in coding of elitism. There are some very smart people on this board, and some of these people have swollen heads. I've always tried to give people my best answer, or point them in a specific direction, even if the question has been asked 600 times before. I mean, why post a link when you can simply cut and paste a better answer? A friendly attitude is very important on any BBS. I think those who go out of their way to help on these boards should be singled out and rewarded, and I think people like this should be encouraged. Id hate to see the decent people on this board leave because a few rotten apples spoiled the bunch.
To me, there is nothing more annoying than asking a serious question and getting an answer like 'go look yourself' or 'heres a link to this 50 page thread, go read through it all to get your partial-answer'. I've had seriously bad luck with the search engine on this forum as it almost never returns relavent results. Try searching on a contribution such as 'Newsletter'. Actually, searching for contribution links has been very difficult. Sometimes I cant find them in the contributions section, so I try searching the forums and almost never get the proper results. Exact phrase matching doesnt seem to work on this board.
Im not complaining, this board is filled with lots of great information. But there is always room for improvement, even with the best of sites. I beleive that a better search function and more clear-spoken rules would be a step in the right direction. In terms of peoples attitudes, there has always been a certain element in coding of elitism. There are some very smart people on this board, and some of these people have swollen heads. I've always tried to give people my best answer, or point them in a specific direction, even if the question has been asked 600 times before. I mean, why post a link when you can simply cut and paste a better answer? A friendly attitude is very important on any BBS. I think those who go out of their way to help on these boards should be singled out and rewarded, and I think people like this should be encouraged. Id hate to see the decent people on this board leave because a few rotten apples spoiled the bunch.
#45
Posted 06 May 2003, 01:08
Hi ,
*I've removed the names - but these are ones we've all used/heard of.
Clearly there is considerable interest in oscommerce .
Some products have taken years to establish themselves.
OSC in a relatively short amount of time, is increasing in popularity.
This means that more and more web designers /site builders / customers are going to appear and want info from this site.
How can these forums be improved ?
1.) New members can only post after an incubation period of say
24 hours. This ensures that they've searched and looked for the answers to their questions before posting.
2.) The main website (oscommerce.com) has no FAQ / begineers guide on the start page or main pages. Someone needs to produce a short guide which tells you the answers to the most common questions.
This is a major headache for alot of the regular forum members, time and time again we see the following....
" How do I move my left column to the right hand side ? "
(without rotating your monitor 180 degrees )
"I want to remove the logo.....change the logo name...."
This website is the first contact point for questions...we need to make it much more friendly to new users. This will cut the postings /emails down by a substantial amount .
( Also the 'hidden' PM's /emails we get which go unaccounted for. )
Since our users are diverse and from around the globe, this FAQ /simple guide to OSC needs to be translated into a selection of suitable languages.
The majority of users now use the SEARCH tool to find what they do not see. The current search tool is terrible for begineers without knowledge of boolean searches.
Also in my opinion, the main website should be changed. more user friendly /familiar words should be used .
The news links on the right ...many are outdated yet this takes up nearly a quarter of the browser window.
Why not use the word Forums instead of community ?
Clicking DOWNLOADS takes me to the TEP 2.1 downloads page when most new users will be much better served by the current 2.2 snapshot or the Milestone release.
How many people out there will be familiar with the terms snapshot,
milestone e.t.c ?
Look at the different download locations...confusing.
Contributions should be labelled Plugins /Contributions since most users know what plug-ins do.
I know with a bit of reading new users can learn about the site, but familiarity is the key when it comes to usability. Why re-invent the wheel ?
Anyway these are my personal opinions.
Comments ?
Quote
Results : google.com search for popular e-com packages
oscommerce : 1,770,000 matches.
A**** : 101,000
M**** : 59,300
J**** : 43,700
oscommerce : 1,770,000 matches.
A**** : 101,000
M**** : 59,300
J**** : 43,700
Clearly there is considerable interest in oscommerce .
Some products have taken years to establish themselves.
OSC in a relatively short amount of time, is increasing in popularity.
This means that more and more web designers /site builders / customers are going to appear and want info from this site.
How can these forums be improved ?
1.) New members can only post after an incubation period of say
24 hours. This ensures that they've searched and looked for the answers to their questions before posting.
2.) The main website (oscommerce.com) has no FAQ / begineers guide on the start page or main pages. Someone needs to produce a short guide which tells you the answers to the most common questions.
This is a major headache for alot of the regular forum members, time and time again we see the following....
" How do I move my left column to the right hand side ? "
(without rotating your monitor 180 degrees )
"I want to remove the logo.....change the logo name...."
This website is the first contact point for questions...we need to make it much more friendly to new users. This will cut the postings /emails down by a substantial amount .
( Also the 'hidden' PM's /emails we get which go unaccounted for. )
Since our users are diverse and from around the globe, this FAQ /simple guide to OSC needs to be translated into a selection of suitable languages.
The majority of users now use the SEARCH tool to find what they do not see. The current search tool is terrible for begineers without knowledge of boolean searches.
Also in my opinion, the main website should be changed. more user friendly /familiar words should be used .
The news links on the right ...many are outdated yet this takes up nearly a quarter of the browser window.
Why not use the word Forums instead of community ?
Clicking DOWNLOADS takes me to the TEP 2.1 downloads page when most new users will be much better served by the current 2.2 snapshot or the Milestone release.
How many people out there will be familiar with the terms snapshot,
milestone e.t.c ?
Look at the different download locations...confusing.
Contributions should be labelled Plugins /Contributions since most users know what plug-ins do.
I know with a bit of reading new users can learn about the site, but familiarity is the key when it comes to usability. Why re-invent the wheel ?
Anyway these are my personal opinions.
Comments ?
#46
Posted 06 May 2003, 09:04
Wow!!! What the hell are you all doing?!
I can't believe all of this is happening. I came back to see how OSC source was doing and it looks like things have been falling apart for some time now.
Moderators: You know the drill. This is Flamebait for sure but I've got to get it out because there are just too many "whiners" going off on the wrong people. I won't bother to point out the names as they will be crying about this post soon enough.
1)Take the cart if you want but give Harald his props. You can fork it all you want but if you are going to use his source "as is" you must abide by "his" form of the licensing and for God's sakes just change the name and all the hidden text in it. You will look like much less of an ass for having stole it and claimed it to be your own hard work when you are popped. You should be thankful Harald even wants to share his product with you. He could close it up and you'd be done.
2)Cross posting is just bad netiquette. If you haven't learned by now then chances are you never will and you should go back to AOL.
3)As much chit chat and idle sarcastic banter that has been running across this forum it's a wonder if any of you 50 million+ post complainers are even running a successful website in the first place. Instead of doing last minute tweaks and touch ups on your sites to get the rankings up you are here complaining about really stupid stuff. If you are running a #1 ranked site for all of your keywords and phrases then by all means rant your guts out...but if you are doing that well you should be looking to build another one.
4)If a man is an ass long enough I ban him from my forums too. Sometimes I feel that I acted hastily and harshly and maybe he was having a bad day. So I let him back in and he starts his crap again so I just put him on permanent ban. Banning someone is four clicks away and begins with the Admin Control panel at the bottom of this screen. If you don't like the way things are then leave. You can always cool down and come back. Don't make someone have to ban you just because you are being an ass or you are having a bad lifetime.
5)Last but not least and definitely the funniest thing in the world to me at the moment is that page ranking on Google is no longer based on just posting a link randomly somewhere and hoping that GoogleBot just happens to come along and pick it up and boost it up the charts. If the site is not theme/topic based and related according to Google algos then it just doesn't do you any good. It actually hurts your ranking on the search engine now. So for all of you spammers that like to put your homepage links in your sig go right ahead. A couple of the folks that have posted in here have already dropped ranks in the past two days but they were probably too damn busy whining and crying about he said she said to even notice.
And to answer that little question burning in your mind my keywords and phrases are pulling top 1-2 on Google.
Thank you to the entire OSC Dev team. I wouldn't be where I am today without it.
I'm going to work on my next site now.
I can't believe all of this is happening. I came back to see how OSC source was doing and it looks like things have been falling apart for some time now.
Moderators: You know the drill. This is Flamebait for sure but I've got to get it out because there are just too many "whiners" going off on the wrong people. I won't bother to point out the names as they will be crying about this post soon enough.
1)Take the cart if you want but give Harald his props. You can fork it all you want but if you are going to use his source "as is" you must abide by "his" form of the licensing and for God's sakes just change the name and all the hidden text in it. You will look like much less of an ass for having stole it and claimed it to be your own hard work when you are popped. You should be thankful Harald even wants to share his product with you. He could close it up and you'd be done.
2)Cross posting is just bad netiquette. If you haven't learned by now then chances are you never will and you should go back to AOL.
3)As much chit chat and idle sarcastic banter that has been running across this forum it's a wonder if any of you 50 million+ post complainers are even running a successful website in the first place. Instead of doing last minute tweaks and touch ups on your sites to get the rankings up you are here complaining about really stupid stuff. If you are running a #1 ranked site for all of your keywords and phrases then by all means rant your guts out...but if you are doing that well you should be looking to build another one.
4)If a man is an ass long enough I ban him from my forums too. Sometimes I feel that I acted hastily and harshly and maybe he was having a bad day. So I let him back in and he starts his crap again so I just put him on permanent ban. Banning someone is four clicks away and begins with the Admin Control panel at the bottom of this screen. If you don't like the way things are then leave. You can always cool down and come back. Don't make someone have to ban you just because you are being an ass or you are having a bad lifetime.
5)Last but not least and definitely the funniest thing in the world to me at the moment is that page ranking on Google is no longer based on just posting a link randomly somewhere and hoping that GoogleBot just happens to come along and pick it up and boost it up the charts. If the site is not theme/topic based and related according to Google algos then it just doesn't do you any good. It actually hurts your ranking on the search engine now. So for all of you spammers that like to put your homepage links in your sig go right ahead. A couple of the folks that have posted in here have already dropped ranks in the past two days but they were probably too damn busy whining and crying about he said she said to even notice.
And to answer that little question burning in your mind my keywords and phrases are pulling top 1-2 on Google.
Thank you to the entire OSC Dev team. I wouldn't be where I am today without it.
I'm going to work on my next site now.
====================
Auction Lister Pro
eBay for osCommerce
====================
Auction Lister Pro
eBay for osCommerce
====================
#47
Posted 06 May 2003, 22:53
The only thing that I have truely disliked about this forum is that in the "What is a believer" thread, some people were bagging on a newbie. There is nothing worse that being the new person, making mistakes and then having people talk about how lame you are. Go ahead and point out their mistakes to them, tell them to search, whatever you feel like you need to do. But don't make fun of them for not knowing something. I wouldn't really consider myself a newbie and I've written my own contribution. I posted a question in this "General Chit-Chat" channel wondering if people knew what happened to a web site and got two Team members jumping in saying that what I asked could be taken the wrong way. All I was asking was if anyone knew what happened to a particular site that I spent money at. Nothing more, nothing less. And it was in the General Chit-Chat channel. So people can rag on other people, but I can't ask about a web site, I don't get that. Another thing I don't quite get is that the longest running thread I've seen had really nothing to do with the project. I've noticed this on other "help" forums also. The biggest longest threads are always in the General off topic sections. Is this the new chat room?
#48
Posted 06 May 2003, 23:00
Hi all,
You too can become a beliver!!. Just keep posting lots of stuff (either osc related or NOT).
Once you have this lable you can be judged a true osc'er who knows it all...
cheers,
You too can become a beliver!!. Just keep posting lots of stuff (either osc related or NOT).
Once you have this lable you can be judged a true osc'er who knows it all...
cheers,
Peter McGrath
-----------------------------
See my Profile (click here) for more information and to contact me for professional osCommerce support that includes SEO development, custom development and security implementation
-----------------------------
See my Profile (click here) for more information and to contact me for professional osCommerce support that includes SEO development, custom development and security implementation
#49
Posted 06 May 2003, 23:49
Quote
You too can become a beliver!!. Just keep posting lots of stuff (either osc related or NOT).
Once you have this lable you can be judged a true osc'er who knows it all...
Once you have this lable you can be judged a true osc'er who knows it all...
Now that was funny
====================
Auction Lister Pro
eBay for osCommerce
====================
Auction Lister Pro
eBay for osCommerce
====================
#50
Posted 07 May 2003, 00:09
I came across an article that relates to this thread somewhat. Its called the Forum Moderators Guide to Life. There are more articles like this in the community section of sitepoints site.
#51
Posted 07 May 2003, 03:47
Quote
Hi all,
You too can become a beliver!!. Just keep posting lots of stuff (either osc related or NOT).
Once you have this lable you can be judged a true osc'er who knows it all...
cheers,
You too can become a beliver!!. Just keep posting lots of stuff (either osc related or NOT).
Once you have this lable you can be judged a true osc'er who knows it all...
cheers,
Harald assigned that label in good faith, some have abused it by only posting in general chat or posting nonsense. Some of the original Believers suggested that the posts in the Chit Chat forum not count towards total post count, but that is most likely not possible.
And although you are being facetious, my sig for a while was to let people know that although I can answer many questions, I am not an expert on osc and I, as well as others, were and still do, get a large number of PM's from people that don't get answers on the forum.
If I don't post an answer, I don't know an answer.
Time to go work on some stores and leave the educating of the newbies to others for a while. I have the nuke project, the mall project (maybe) and other projects that I don't need to make public to reinforce the fact that I believe in the theory of Open Source, that I believe in keeping it FREE of charge and that I BELEIVE in the osc team and their dedication and goals.
If YOU don't believe in those things, than maybe you should reconsider your own status or label or function in this community.
Go find a post in the General or Installation forums and post an answer.....
Deborah a.k.a. Loxly
Learn to Set up and Manage Your Affiliate Program
Learn to Set up and Manage Your Affiliate Program
#52
-
- Community Member
- 6,765 posts
- Real Name:G Burton
- Gender:Male
- Location:UK/DEVon/NULL -> get it, hardeharhar.
Posted 07 May 2003, 07:27
Quote
that I believe in the theory of Open Source, that I believe in keeping it FREE of charge and that I BELEIVE in the osc team and their dedication and goals.
Open Source means freedom to do as you please, not freedom as in "free of charge". Read up at http://www.gnu.org/philosophy for more. Some good pages are:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-softwar...or-freedom.html
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html
#53
-
- Community Member
- 6,765 posts
- Real Name:G Burton
- Gender:Male
- Location:UK/DEVon/NULL -> get it, hardeharhar.
Posted 07 May 2003, 07:32
Quote
You too can become a beliver!!. Just keep posting lots of stuff (either osc related or NOT).
Once you have this lable you can be judged a true osc'er who knows it all...
Once you have this lable you can be judged a true osc'er who knows it all...
That is funny, good one. I never liked the word "believer" from day one, it's like a word that a cult would use.
#54
Posted 07 May 2003, 15:41
Quote
Quote
that I believe in the theory of Open Source, that I believe in keeping it FREE of charge and that I BELEIVE in the osc team and their dedication and goals.
Open Source means freedom to do as you please, not freedom as in "free of charge". Read up at http://www.gnu.org/philosophy for more. Some good pages are:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-softwar...or-freedom.htmlhttp://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html
I know what the licence says, I personally believe in keeping it FREE of charge. I do my reading thank you very much. If everyone took the open source codes, improved it and started charging for them, then there wouldn't be open source in the future would there? Not that was any good anyway. But that's right there are already lots of great improvements to osc htat this community will never see because the developers took the free code, enhanced it and are charging mega bucks for it.
You know what though, what goes around comes around.
yes, everyone here sells something, and yes, the licencse doesn't exclude you from selling the code once you enhance it, but there are ethics involved to. You benefit from someone else's work and you didn't pay up front for it did you?
End of rant. You won't listen anyway. Reading before posting has become a lost art.
Deborah a.k.a. Loxly
Learn to Set up and Manage Your Affiliate Program
Learn to Set up and Manage Your Affiliate Program
#55
Posted 07 May 2003, 15:55
Quote
I never liked the word "believer" from day one, it's like a word that a cult would use.
I guess you would have still said that no matter what word was used as the first forum ranking title..?
We're contemplating adding new rankings, any ideas (plus attached posting count total)?
Harald Ponce de Leon
osCommerce, Sell With Emotion
osCommerce, Sell With Emotion
#56
Posted 07 May 2003, 16:00
Keeping osC free of charge is probably a good move. Although the software is great, I probably wouldn't be using it now if it wasn't distributed for free. I'm starting up a business, and we needed a solution that was extremely cheap and extremely flexible. I will be coding for osC long-term, using it to build our businesses. The application I am developing based on osC will continue to grow and change, and will eventually become a very different beast from the osC project. I could even consider selling the platform to other clients.
But you can be darned sure that I will be donating money to the developers to osC, as well as donating code bits here, and helping folks out with their own development. As a programmer, I understand what its like to work on code and what goes in to it. And although I'm getting paid by the hour to develop osC in to something more specific to our needs, we certainly won't forget the people who made it possible to start in the first place.
I'm not sure why the developers of osC decided on their free-of-charge model. I think it works nicely, and I hope that anyone making a profit from the use of the software is donating to the cause either financially or code wise. But I think the free-of-charge/donations model can be very successful, because most people will have the moral standard to give back what they have been given. Plus it encourages people to develop. If I had to spend $300 to buy osC, I would be a lot less likely to share my code or contribute. I'd figgure that I had already paid my dues. Pretty much how vBulletin or other similar projects work.
osC should have a PayPal donate feature. Unless I am missing it? I know you can donate to the individuals responsible directly, but wouldnt it be better to donate to the osC project, and let the developers split it?
But you can be darned sure that I will be donating money to the developers to osC, as well as donating code bits here, and helping folks out with their own development. As a programmer, I understand what its like to work on code and what goes in to it. And although I'm getting paid by the hour to develop osC in to something more specific to our needs, we certainly won't forget the people who made it possible to start in the first place.
I'm not sure why the developers of osC decided on their free-of-charge model. I think it works nicely, and I hope that anyone making a profit from the use of the software is donating to the cause either financially or code wise. But I think the free-of-charge/donations model can be very successful, because most people will have the moral standard to give back what they have been given. Plus it encourages people to develop. If I had to spend $300 to buy osC, I would be a lot less likely to share my code or contribute. I'd figgure that I had already paid my dues. Pretty much how vBulletin or other similar projects work.
osC should have a PayPal donate feature. Unless I am missing it? I know you can donate to the individuals responsible directly, but wouldnt it be better to donate to the osC project, and let the developers split it?
#57
Posted 07 May 2003, 16:05
You have the handy dandy link to the Team page, should you be so inclined to make donations ...
http://www.oscommerce.com/about/team
http://www.oscommerce.com/about/team
#58
Posted 07 May 2003, 16:20
Quote
We're contemplating adding new rankings, any ideas (plus attached posting count total)?
But seriously, how about "Moderator". I'm not really up on Robert's Rules of Order, nor do I mean that you are supposed to be following them, but do we get to vote on Kim being a Moderator now or do we have to wait for someone to Sixth or Seventh the nomination.
P.S. - Yes, I know this is not a democracy.
In olden times the men were made of iron and the ships were made of wood; now it's the other way around. :wink:
#59
Posted 07 May 2003, 16:32
Quote
"Whiner", judging from many of the recent posts. :wink:
Somehow I don't see that happening when a person on 499 posts all of a sudden gets labelled as "Whiner" on their 500th post
Quote
But seriously, how about "Moderator". I'm not really up on Robert's Rules of Order, nor do I mean that you are supposed to be following them, but do we get to vote on Kim being a Moderator now or do we have to wait for someone to Sixth or Seventh the nomination.
That's going to be discussed after the forum rules have been updated (might take a while, which is why baby steps are happening now).
Harald Ponce de Leon
osCommerce, Sell With Emotion
osCommerce, Sell With Emotion
#60
Posted 07 May 2003, 16:56
I feel like some of the Believers are in some sort of clique. Hence the "Gathering of Believers" thread. Nothing like making people with under 300 posts feel un-welcome. As far as donations go, I tried to donate $10 to Ian Wilson before he was a team member because he helped me out a lot. He said thanks and that he would accept it when he got around to it. Well, he never got around to it. So I donated the $10 to hpdl. Now I know he's extremely busy, and get's hundreds of e-mails a day. But even an autoresponder with "Thanks for supporting osc" would have been nice. Something to look into I guess.
