AMCSyl Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I think I may have deleted my whole site. I was trying to add a new folder in the File Manager, and it was wrong, so I went to delete it. By pressing the little garbage can icon on the right end of the page. It was only to a folder that was empty and when I clicked on it, it only brought up the delete or cancel button. When I hit delete, that's it - EVERYTHING was gone! I can't even log onto OSCommerce anymore and get the dashboard. The only page I get on my site is the "includes" file page, and then when you click on any link on that page there's nothing. How can it be this easy to delete a whole site with no safe guards or warnings if an action you will be taking is THAT big? Of course wherever my webmaster tried to phone is closed today, and I have no business if this site is really all gone! Please someone tell me there is a way to undo this. I asked my webmaster whether doing a system restore on my computer would help, and she said no because this server is on another computer, not mine, and restore will only restore things on my computer. By the way, we had a very old oscom version 2.2. Thanks in advance for ANY help anyone can offer!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PupStar Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 @@AMCSyl have you contacted your host to restore the most recent backup? this is the first thing your webmaster should have suggested (w00t) Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMCSyl Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Hi Mark, Thanks for your quick reply. We had contacted the host already (they are in California so 3 hours behind us here in Toronto, Canada) and were waiting for a response. My webmaster was able to determine that the database was still there in the ftp file so she said that is a good thing because all our orders/customers/products/ are still there. She made a download of that database onto her computer as well, just in case something happens to it when the host is working on it. While I was on the phone with her, she did hear back from the host, who said they had opened a ticket and would be in touch by email when they had someone there to work on it. Makes life harder that it's a Sunday so we may have to wait till tomorrow to hear from someone which will mean I won't be sleeping tonight! Anyway, my webmaster said the best case scenario is that the host will be able to throw up their latest update of the server in which case our troubles will be over and if that update is a couple of months old, then we will have to go in and just redo some changes made since those couple of months, OR worst case scenario is that they tell us there's nothing we can do so we will have to end up manually re entering everything ourselves, and that will take up to a week. I guess our saving grace is that the database is still there. Since our site is SO OLD, my webmaster suggested that if we don't have any luck with the host reinstalling a back up, then now will be a good time to upload everything into the latest version of OSC as we were planning to do all along anyway. We even have a development site to play around in set up. I guess ideally, it would have been good to have the old site to copy and paste stuff from to make it faster, but at this point beggars can't be choosers. Does all of this sound right to you, or is there something more I can be doing? Thanks, Sylvia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMCSyl Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Also, just as a source of comfort for me, is it likely that the host WILL have a recent back up that can be installed? As a host to tons of peoples' websites, aren't they supposed to have back ups for reasons just like this? I know this one was MY fault, not theirs, but regardless of how something got wiped out, shouldn't it be certain that they have a back up of some sort ready? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPhil Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I asked my webmaster whether doing a system restore on my computer would help, and she said no because this server is on another computer, not mine, and restore will only restore things on my computer. Well, it would help. It would be stage 1: you restore to a PC, and then you upload the files to the server (stage 2). Of course, the backup needs to be reasonably current. My webmaster was able to determine that the database was still there in the ftp file so she said that is a good thing because all our orders/customers/products/ are still there. The product image files are not in the database. If you erased those too, you'd better have a backup somewhere. is it likely that the host WILL have a recent back up that can be installed? They should have a recent backup, but will probably charge you a good amount to restore it. Server backups are meant for restoring entire server disks after a crash, and not for restoring individual accounts or just selected files. It takes a lot of extra work on their part to find your account and the files within it, so usually there's a fee. By the way, most server backups aren't kept for very long. For example, LunarPages only keeps theirs for 5 days (as well as charging something like $75 to do a restore). They don't need to keep them longer, as a crash or massive hack would certainly be found well before 5 days. So, if you need to make use of a host backup, don't delay! LP also only has phone support during normal business hours, and you have to use the ticketing system otherwise, if that's who you're with. I would suggest that you always make (and download to your PC) a full file backup whenever you're going to be fooling with files. In fact, a full backup on a regular basis can save a lot of headaches. Even if you get your site back, I would still take a serious look at upgrading to osC 2.3.4. This would involve a fresh install, transfer of the product image files, and database copy and upgrade. Unless your site is extremely customized, it's not worth going step-by-step through the upgrades to 2.3.4. Too much can go wrong anyway, and you will still end up with a "Frankenstore" hybrid that doesn't look much like a new 2.3.4 install (difficult to maintain and not very compatible with newer add-ons). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mort-lemur Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 @@AMCSyl Once you get things sorted out one way or another - you need to make sure that your webmaster, and more importantly you make weekly backups of both your store files and database. These need to be kept in a location other than your server eg on your hard drive, a usb stick, external hard drive etc. That way if the worst happens you only have at most a weeks worth of data to re-enter. My host keeps backups for 2 weeks and does not charge for restores. Good Luck Now running on a fully modded, Mobile Friendly 2.3.4 Store with the Excellent MTS installed - See my profile for the mods installed ..... So much thanks for all the help given along the way by forum members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMCSyl Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Thanks, Dr. Phil, and by the way, I like your avatar! It's kind of how I feel right now, like I've shot an arrow through my own head! Anyway, I will look into the restore then, if it will help in any way. Also, I am not sure about product images. According to my webmaster, she seems to think I have erased the Root Directory. :( My webmaster also did tell me there could possibly be a fee, although she said she didn't think it would be that big - like maybe $50, if that (in her words). Whatever, that doesn't scare me because if they are going to save my life, then I better be willing to compensate them for it. The tricky part, is if, as you say, they have kept a back up at all. I'm not too sure how this all works, but she did explain to me that they make a back up and only keep it for a certain amount of time before they dump it as it ties up space on their servers. That said, if a back up is dumped, wouldn't there, or shouldn't there be a new one to replace it at all times? What if someone did have a crash? Isn't it the host's job to have a back up at all times? Just wondering... Anyway, I am definitely going to be in the habit of making regular back-ups. I know this is something everyone says once they screw up already! I just can't imagine why trying to delete a new folder would result in this? Final analysis, I do have a developer file on the side that is 2.3.4 and our plan was to gradually merge everything over there. My webmaster knows the way, I am hoping to do it so we don't end up with a "Frankenstore"! I guess this is the push we needed to get that going. The host has advised that they won't continue to support the old version anymore. Thanks for your advice, and info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMCSyl Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 @@Mort-lemur Thank you! I hope it all works out, and it is a big lesson learned for me. I tend (as many do), to get lazy when it comes to back ups even in my personal stuff like photos etc. I do need to make it a habit of backing everything up to another location. I'm ashamed to say the last time I probably backed up my oscom files was last year. I know - I deserve what I got by doing that. Anyhow, with regard to the host saving back ups, does it mean I'm screwed if they have already dumped their last back up? Would they have an older one to restore from or would they not make sure to create a new one before dumping the old? It just doesn't make sense to me to have no back up when your client could potentially encounter an emergency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mort-lemur Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 @@AMCSyl one other thing worth taking a look at - does your hosting offer cpanel? if so take a look if the R1 Soft Restore facility is enabled - that allows you to do your own restores from backups on the server. Now running on a fully modded, Mobile Friendly 2.3.4 Store with the Excellent MTS installed - See my profile for the mods installed ..... So much thanks for all the help given along the way by forum members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMCSyl Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 That is something I will have to ask my webmaster, as I have no clue! Would that be an option even for me who is running version 2.2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mort-lemur Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 @@AMCSyl I would be very surprised if they did not have a backup - if they do not, or charge you excessive amounts to restore then change hosts - as I said mine do not charge for restores and their support is available 24/7 which has saved my sites several times :) Now running on a fully modded, Mobile Friendly 2.3.4 Store with the Excellent MTS installed - See my profile for the mods installed ..... So much thanks for all the help given along the way by forum members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mort-lemur Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 That is something I will have to ask my webmaster, as I have no clue! Would that be an option even for me who is running version 2.2? yes - its the cpanel on your hosting environment - nothing to do with what you run on the server could be osc 2.2Rc1 or 2.3.4BS cpanel would be the same Now running on a fully modded, Mobile Friendly 2.3.4 Store with the Excellent MTS installed - See my profile for the mods installed ..... So much thanks for all the help given along the way by forum members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMCSyl Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 @@Mort-lemur According to my webmaster, they are pretty good. My host is Beco Technologies; not sure if anyone has heard of them. She was pretty confident that they would have something to back up from, and that they either wouldn't charge, or would charge a nominal fee, which I am more than ok with since this is totally my blunder. As for 24/7, they don't have a hotline per se, but they do have an after hours voice box for emergencies, and they did reply with today being Sunday saying they had already opened a support ticket. Just not sure if they actually have anyone today to work on the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMCSyl Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 yes - its the cpanel on your hosting environment - nothing to do with what you run on the server could be osc 2.2Rc1 or 2.3.4BS cpanel would be the same Ok thanks, I will definitely ask her this now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPhil Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Your host should have a backup at all times, but may feel free to erase (overwrite) the previous backup once they have a good new backup. That probably isn't right away; more likely at the next scheduled backup. Some hosts might keep 2 or 3 previous generations, but don't bet the farm on that. So if they back up, say, every 5 days, the current backup could be anywhere from 0 to 5 days old, and the previous backup (if it exists) might be 5 to 9 days old. Depending on when the Bad Thing happened to your site (e.g., a week ago), you may have very little time to recover it from the host's backup. Backups can consume lots of tape cartridges, which aren't cheap, so hosts don't want old data hanging around for a long time. Incidentally, I have heard of hosts discovering that their server backups are no good, due to hardware failure (bad tape drive, etc.) or even incorrectly written system software or procedures that were never properly tested. The lesson here is that you always keep your own off-server backups, in addition to whatever the host does. How often you back up depends on how fast your data changes and how painful it would be to lose it. Don't forget the database backup, and practice doing a restore once in a while, so you know that your backups are good and how to quickly restore your system without panicking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMCSyl Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Thank You, Dr. Phil. The "Bad Thin" happened this morning, so hopefully my host will be able to restore from a relatively new back up. I have made a lot of changes in the last month and I would hate to have to go in and redo all of those especially if things like image and sound files are not saved in the database. My webmaster also has a call in to a personal contact she knows at the host, so she said if he happens to be around his email today, he should respond. Fingers crossed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMCSyl Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Small update: My webmaster has a direct contact to the hosting company, one of the owners, and he responded to her personally, bypassing the Support Team, so apparently he has our support ticket, and we should know soon if they can restore it. Fingers and toes crossed that they can do something! I hope this will be resolved today so I can sleep tonight! I'll update as soon as I get word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMCSyl Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Still haven't heard back from the Hosts. The last conversation my webmaster had with them, was them saying they were working on it. She told me she's a bit concerned because the server our site was on was really old, and that they were being phased out. Does that mean those servers were not being backed up? We don't know. I guess if it was hopeless, we would have heard early on saying sorry, these files are irretrievable. Maybe the fact that it's taking this long means they are succeeding in slowly restoring things? Maybe, I am just kidding myself, but one can hope. At this point it probably won't be today that we get any news. I will update tomorrow. In the meantime I was told to start getting the new site together because eventually we need to switch over anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burt Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Your site seems to be back up and running. Today: 1. make a backup copy of your full site and database. 2. store the backup in at least two places; on your desktop and in a cloud (eg google drive). After this: 3. update your shop to a recent version 4. never rely on anyone else to get you out of trouble And then: 5. make a weekly backup of your database and store in 2 places 6. make a monthly backup of your full site and database and store in 2 places Even the `experts` get it wrong sometimes - I recently forgot to renew my website hosting on one of my sites, losing the whole site with no backup at all. That's about 9 years of interesting data lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMCSyl Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Good Morning All, Last night at around 3:30am (I couldn't sleep), I checked the site again before putting my head on my pillow, and lo and behold, THE SITE WAS BACK!!! Thank goodness, you can't imagine my relief. Thank you to ALL of you who gave advice, and encouragement, both here, and in the live chat! I will definitely not be sitting on my laurels now when it comes to backing up and moving over to the new server! I can't take a chance like this again! We were really lucky that everything came over exactly as it was, except for some small changes made a couple of days ago, and for some reason some product images that were from within the last couple of months. Everything else was as is, so I would say best case scenario!! Your site seems to be back up and running. Today: 1. make a backup copy of your full site and database. 2. store the backup in at least two places; on your desktop and in a cloud (eg google drive). After this: 3. update your shop to a recent version 4. never rely on anyone else to get you out of trouble And then: 5. make a weekly backup of your database and store in 2 places 6. make a monthly backup of your full site and database and store in 2 places Even the `experts` get it wrong sometimes - I recently forgot to renew my website hosting on one of my sites, losing the whole site with no backup at all. That's about 9 years of interesting data lost. Burt, I hear you loud and clear. I know human beings tend to get complacent, and sometimes things like this give you the kick in the pants you need to be more vigilant! I was really not looking forward to manually entering things again. If you checked out our site, you probably saw just HOW MANY things we have on there. A huge thank you to all again! I hope to be running version 2.3.4 soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPhil Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Great! Not only should you back up everything (offsite) on a regular basis, but also learn how to verify that you have what appears to be a good, complete backup. Once in a while, you should do a restore and try to bring up a new (test) site, just to confirm that the backup is good and you know how to properly restore it. That beats being up at 3am frantically trying everything to get your site back, which usually just makes things worse. Eventually, knowing what a good backup looks like, you can usually just do a quick eyeball check every so often (between restores). Never assume that a backup is good. Finally, send a small gift to whoever bent over backwards to help you at your hosting company -- a big box of gourmet chocolate chip cookies, or something. They'll appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMCSyl Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Finally, send a small gift to whoever bent over backwards to help you at your hosting company -- a big box of gourmet chocolate chip cookies, or something. They'll appreciate it. You read my mind, Mr. Phil! I was really thinking of what I could do in the way of a gesture to thank this person, whom I am sure went out of his way, outside the regular channels, to help! I plan on taking my webmaster out to lunch too! She facilitated the whole thing and used her connections in high places. Most of all, she did a lot of hand holding over the phone when I was freaking out! She's a great friend too. Finally, I agree with all of the other things you said re: backing up and testing back ups. I need to get more on top of things and stop burying my head in the sand that these things can't happen to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♥kymation Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 One addition to what @@burt said: how many orders do you want to lose? If your site only gets one or two orders a week, weekly database backups will probably be good enough. If it's several orders a day, you had better plan on backing up your database daily. Remember, all orders since your last backup will be lost if your database is destroyed. Regards Jim See my profile for a list of my addons and ways to get support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMCSyl Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Jim, are you referring to the Database back ups done through the admin panel? Those are what I should be doing everyday, or do you mean the back ups to other locations should be done daily? If something like this happened again, even if I had back ups up to date through the admin panel, how would I be able to access them? My webmaster tried yesterday to open the database that was on the ftp file, but she had to download a program to open it (Notepad++), and even then it wasn't opening properly. It was all in bits and pieces. She said before, when the site was fine, and she saw the server side of things, everything was in proper order on that database. I am so scared to touch anything now, I am even afraid if I press the back up button, the site might disappear again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♥kymation Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 You need to back up to a different machine than the one the site is on. It's OK to leave a copy on the server, at least until the next backup is done, but you also need at least one at another location. I download backups to my home computer, then copy that to a NAS drive. You can also burn a copy to a CD-ROM, copy to a thumb drive, or copy to a portable hard drive. The point is to have multiple copies in case something goes south. Those copies also need to be recent copies. You should also test the backup occasionally. I suggest restoring from the backup to your test site. You can also open the backup in an editor such as Notepad++, if you know what a SQL file should look like. If the restore doesn't work or the file is obviously broken, find out what's gone wrong ASAP. A backup that can't be used is the same as no backup. The backup button in osComemrce should be safe. Just don't hit the restore button by mistake. Regards Jim See my profile for a list of my addons and ways to get support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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