35 replies to this topic

[burt]

All - please would everyone start using the "reputation" system on a post by post basis. It is found at the bottom of each post and allows you to give a + rating (if you think the information contained in the post is good/helpful) or a - rating (info is not so good or unhelpful).

If everyone starts using the reputation system, it could be a very good way to cleanse the forum of useless and un-needed posts - as I have no doubt that future versions of this board software may allow the owner to simply automatically remove all posts with a rating of -5 (or whatever).

In addition, anyone new to the forum will be able to search the board and find a topic with many answers - he or she will then be able to scan through the answers for the one with the best + rating and try out that solution first.

Again, I ask you all to start using the reputation system!

[Xpajun]

But the reputation buttons can be rigged by unscrupulous posters thus making it worse than useless so ultimately there is no point.

There are far better ways of doing what you want but it requires better (or should I say more) moderation (ie more moderators required)


Reputation buttons are the quickest way to kill a good forum - believe me I've seen it happen time and time again - very often they are used as a retaliation button putting down a poster you don't like or have fallen out with...

Doesn't do much to get rid of useless post then does it?

[burt]

I don't think that they can - as there is a set limit per day that you can -rate. Unless of course, people make multiple personalities for a forum, but that's a sad thing to do.

I am asking that people use them correctly - if they are used correctly, it's all good. Glass half full?

[Ben Nevis]

I don't think it would be useful to rate every post, but it could potentially be useful if everyone who finds a post useful - if that particular post solves their particular problem - adds a vote to it, if the votes are then used in rankings for the search algorithm. When I was setting up shop I found it can be very hard to find relevant information in the forums because of the sheer volumes of posts. The default search appears to look for keywords in all post text and I found it a pretty hopeless task to find the information I needed, I got better results by searching for my keywords in subject titles only. If search results could be ranked with voting information as well this ought to greatly facilitate finding relevant answers. This might also help with producing a separate FAQ or knowledgebase, which IMO there really ought to be (maybe there is one, but if there is I haven't noticed it yet... it seems lots of other people haven't found it either!)

[aligp]

I am surprised you think this PR (Post Rank, NOT page rank) is a good or useful thing. I could not agree more with Xpajun and I would also like to add that, even if "used correctly", the opinions of "good/helpful" as against "bad/unhelpful" is rather subjective. For some it may be good for others it would be bad (in that, eg, lack of great details or finest step by step and prompt answers) suggest that, as most visitors to this forum do not log in, even they have "objective" opinions they would find it inconvenience to vote and simply do not bother. Further more, people might be out of curiosity or simply by mistake click the rating button which they would regret but as you rightly point out you can't just re-rate the post immediately. To remember to come back and re-rate would be a chore task. I know this is not the correct use of it but unfortunately we are not living in an ideal world: just think about how many "dumb" questions we see daily...
Ali

Edited by aligp, 18 November 2009, 12:18.

[burt]

It seems like a good idea for a post with (say) -5 or worse to be auto hidden by the forum. We already have to wade thru too much crap, so aligp, those "dumb" questions would just vanish if they were neg rated. Like magic! lol

A great post, with info that helps you, can be given a +rate - it makes the whole forum more attractive in my opinion. I don't understand the resistance to it...

[Ben Nevis]

I definitely think it needs to be possible for a voter to change their vote immediately if made wrongly by accident. It's probably a bit too easy to hit the voting buttons due to mistake or confusion as to their use. It shouldn't be possible to do more than one vote per person per post, and I think the negative vote could usefully be removed to prevent them being used spitefully as noted further above - although considering the numbers and diversity of people posting on these forums it seems to me, in the brief time I have been here, to be a very well behaved forum. Letting posters know who's voted might be a further deterrent to inappropriate voting?

[aligp]

Any rating, if not backing up by some solid comments (such as the comments seen on articles published in blogs), is neither useful nor helpful. Deleting or hiding (how could you hide them?) posts/answers that reaches a set number of minus could well be a bad thing with regards to seo. I don't feel it would be helpful to oscommerce forum ranking if lots of links ended up with a page not found error, since SEs do not know nor care the PR (Post Reputation) rating and they just index everything.

[delta_blues]

The "Red button" has become the red badge of integrity.

Take a look at my profile to see what abusers that use wrongly or improperly and misuse the good/bad in an attempt to denigrate.

A read of my topics will reveal attempts to assail with contemptuous, or insulting words followed by punching the negative button.

I have received more then 60 reds in about 2 weeks. I could post "Hello World" and receive a red.

On the profile page, the red is marked "Bad", as to introduce or otherwise convey (a thought, for example) gradually and insidiously that the member is a bad person.

First the culprit attempts to force other members to adhere to their point of view, the culprit may use various approaches, some hard some soft, to coerce others be a devoted follower or supporter.

Not to worry, every forum has ruffians. They are generally ignored but if persistent, their flaming becomes a mark of integrity for the recipient.

Cronies will inflate the standing of a long-time close friend or companion by punching the green on every post and topic written by their buddy.

The Positive/ Negative is an ineffectual methodology.

Regards, Robert

[Jan Zonjee]

delta_blues, on 28 November 2009, 21:18, said:

Take a look at my profile to see what abusers that use wrongly or improperly and misuse the good/bad in an attempt to denigrate.

A read of my topics will reveal attempts to assail with contemptuous, or insulting words followed by punching the negative button.

I have received more then 60 reds in about 2 weeks. I could post "Hello World" and receive a red.

Pretty sad. However, if the person who did this thinks he can't be found out he or she is wrong. The forum software does keep track the voting. I will see what can be done about it.

[delta_blues]

Greetings, Jan, and thank you for your interest.

This apparent misuse does not cause me much concern.

Abusers would never dare to approach a stranger on the street and intervene such as this, but the distance and the "keyboard firewall" emboldens them.

As I stated the "Red Button" has become a badge of integrity.

Best Regards, Robert

[GemRock]

Jan Zonjee, on 28 November 2009, 21:27, said:

Pretty sad. However, if the person who did this thinks he can't be found out he or she is wrong. The forum software does keep track the voting. I will see what can be done about it.

with all respect, i think in this case you may have missed the point. it does not necessarily mean that one is an "abuser" by giving a post a negative vote, on the other hand it is equally true that it does not mean one is not an "abuser" by giving a positive vote. by and large, from what i read, in particular, the complainant, who by the way, seems to use the forum as his own blog albeit not worth reading or even misleading IMO, in this thread does deserve all the negative votes. no one can demand plus votes or complain about minus votes. Most members are honest which is the key point to remember. after all how many people get lots of minus votes? has anyone seen a voting war going on here?

the voting system does not offer a way to give a reason why one would like to vote plus/minus, it is this that needs to be done something about.
sorry, no greetings nor regards, which is not my style nor are most members of the osc forums.
Ken

Edited by GemRock, 28 November 2009, 22:48.

[delta_blues]

Hello, Ken…

The use of salutations in correspondence by others is none of my business. Are you attempting to guide my way of using the proper English language?

I suppose that I wasn’t clear.

When an abuser follows a member from thread to thread and posts neg. it’s abuse.

Apparently, I am the complainant you are referring to.

How is it that you are to decide how I post and what the subject matter is?

Do you see rules violations by me?

I have not referred to most members, but only to abusers.



Regards, Robert

Edited by Jan Zonjee, 28 November 2009, 23:32.

[delta_blues]

Greetings…

I’ve been reviewing how many topics and threads are involved where I have followed members around forums and attempted to diminish them by posting negative input about them personally or in the third person.

The count is zero.
I have responded as best I can to many annoying replies.
I only respond. I do not follow other member’s threads and criticize, as of course some of you believe it is your duty to do.

All of you self appointed, gurus, forum posse’s, forum enforcement vigilantes and so on, have somehow came to the belief that since you have posted for many moons, you are now authorities and the lesser members need your approval.

Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Forum members have gotten through their lives without you and will continue to do so.
Yes, we realize that now we will receive no help from you…
Oh, well… It will be just awful without your input but we will just have to “tough it out”

Regards, Robert

[Biancoblu]

Jan Zonjee, on 28 November 2009, 21:27, said:

Pretty sad. However, if the person who did this thinks he can't be found out he or she is wrong. The forum software does keep track the voting. I will see what can be done about it.

The complaining poster has been calling forum members "culprits, coercing ruffians, abusers, self appointed gurus, forum enforcement vigilantes" (to quote just a few of his colourful expressions) just because they happen to have a different opinion than his own, furthermore, he has created more than one identity to do that. I am not in the least surprised he got so many negatives and I'm not ashamed to say that I gave some negatives too.
Personally I don't like coming to the forums and be called such names when all I've ever done was try and help whenever I could (including the complaining poster), ask others for help when I had a problem, and generally be curteous to everyone even when exchanging diverging views.

I will no doubt be in for a looooooooooooong palaver by said poster now, but never mind, I'll just ignore it.

[Jan Zonjee]

Biancoblu, on 29 November 2009, 21:49, said:

The complaining poster has been calling forum members "culprits, coercing ruffians, abusers, self appointed gurus, forum enforcement vigilantes" (to quote just a few of his colourful expressions) just because they happen to have a different opinion than his own, furthermore, he has created more than one identity to do that. I am not in the least surprised he got so many negatives and I'm not ashamed to say that I gave some negatives too.

Granted, but I counted -61 yesterday on around 100 posts which indicates to me someone deliberately went visiting his posts to rate them all negatively. That is not the idea of the reputation system.

[Biancoblu]

I agree with you on that, I didn't know this had happened.

[GemRock]

i think a few questions need to be asked:

1. would the ratio of -votes/posts mean anything?

2. what if the posts from that person in question really deserve -votes?

3. why the same "someone" does not go out to rate any others' posts all negative?

4. would that not suggest that the attitude/behaviour/posts etc of/from the person in question is really irritating to many, one might say like a spammer?

btw, i don't have the time to go out to search 100 posts to rate...

and Burt, who started this topic, you are right, in this case, to suggest that for posts that have a certain number of -votes should be auto deleted
Ken

Edited by GemRock, 29 November 2009, 23:21.

[delta_blues]

Greetings, Isabella.

Once again, I feel I must respond to more criticism. In spite of being accused of blogging.

OK, Isabella concerning my 2 accounts.

I bought my first PC in 1998. I certified as an A+ computer tech and built my first PC in 2001. I register my first domain in 2001. I began working in MS Win 3.2.
HotBot was the only reliable search engine on the net. Search engine registration was done by hand submitting an application. Webpages were actually read by humans, and either accepted or rejected. I can assure you that mal-formed page source was rejected.

I have had as many as 32 domains registered personally. I am now down to about less than twenty. I am a domain reseller.
I generally manage 2-dozen or more personal and client websites.
I found years ago that all business must absolutely be kept in separate accounts, no exceptions.
Yes, I have registered 2 accounts and will register as many as I need in the future.
Your complaint about my having 2 accounts is none of your affair and is an example of more personal “Hogwash” being posted in this forum.

I am here to evaluate as to weather a free open source store software can successfully be adapted for client use. What it takes to construct it. Maintenance. Cost effectiveness for the client, and so on.
I am building demo sites at this time.

You can be sure that any employee working for my web development firm that advocates and or promotes malformed page source will be immediately counseled and if the employee does not comply, will be replaced.

I make mistakes on a regular basis. I spend to much of my time correcting my own mistakes.
Perhaps you folks can store all of your account info and data in one folder, I can’t. Perhaps you can find errors in markup language on pages with 1200 lines or more, day after day.
I don't even know I made the error or typo, or I wouldn't have done it, let alone locate it. A validator locates my shortcomings immediately and I am thankful for that.

The adjectives I have used to describe the Forum bullies were not caused by a difference of opinion, but rather by personal attacks against me.

I have posted a relatively small number of topics. Most of my posts were in response to personal remarks against me.

In addition, the count of negative clicks against forum members by me is “Zero”…
I have no interest in diminishing those around me.

It is up to an individual as to whether or not the descriptions apply to them. So, be it they chose to place it upon themselves.

I response, I will soon start a new topic Titled “Workplace Bullies – Forum Bullies”. There is little difference between the two.
If any of our readers want to get a head start on the subject just load your favorite browser, search for Work Place bullies.

Best Regards, to you, Robert

Edited by delta_blues, 30 November 2009, 09:24.

[delta_blues]

Here is a direct quote copied from one of my posts to Isabella...
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"Hello Isabella.

Thank you very much for using your time and expertise to review my store effort.

Your feedback is valuable and welcomed. I would not have easily, discovered these discrepancies on my own.

I will examine systematically each item which you indicate".
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What more could one ask for?