457 replies to this topic

[Save osCommerce From Vger]

Harald Ponce de Leon, on Aug 19 2009, 10:13 PM, said:

Hi All..

We do appreciate the support the community is providing but please leave the legal work for our lawyers to perform :-)

Thank you,

Harald, none of us will ever be happy she has registered the community name as her company's trade mark.

[Giovanna]

burt, on Aug 19 2009, 03:00 PM, said:

Giovanna - as you are a member of the other forum, perhaps you'd be kind enough to raise a topic to ask why a non-oscommerce site has been threatened because it uses the word osCommerce? That would be very nice of you...

As I said before and what alot of people are getting mixed up with. She registered the name. So you cant use the name without permission. Same as you cant be called Club Disney or Club Coca-cola, both are registered trademarks in their name.

[Save osCommerce From Vger]

Giovanna, on Aug 19 2009, 10:46 PM, said:

As I said before and what alot of people are getting mixed up with. She registered the name. So you cant use the name without permission. Same as you cant be called Club Disney or Club Coca-cola, both are registered trademarks in their name.

As it stands Vger and her company should never have attempted to register the name oscommerce because according to United Kingdom trade mark regulations a trade mark does not even have to be registered to be protected, so as long as it is associated with one primary or originating company the trade mark name will be revoked from its registrars and it will be registered on to the original people who used it first.

Edited by Save osCommerce From Vger, 19 August 2009, 21:52.

[Giovanna]

aligp, on Aug 19 2009, 01:37 PM, said:

My suggestion: if I were harald I would re-write the license terms & conditions by inserting a new clause that effective ban all those that running the racket from using the osCommerce code without paying a fee. This would apply to all those behind the racket and all osCommerce sites that are hosted on their server. the site owners either have to move away or pay a fee of Harald's choice.

Ali

LOL! Its GPL! Simply cant do that.

and stop calling it a racket. Its not. Rhea is not going to charge a fee for using the shopping cart software.

[Save osCommerce From Vger]

Giovanna, on Aug 19 2009, 10:52 PM, said:

LOL! Its GPL! Simply cant do that.

and stop calling it a racket. Its not. Rhea is not going to charge a fee for using the shopping cart software.

Once the IPO find out a claim against her registration is lodged she will have the trade mark removed from her company's ownership.

osCommerce trademark policy

[burt]

Giovanna, on Aug 19 2009, 10:52 PM, said:

LOL! Its GPL! Simply cant do that.

and stop calling it a racket. Its not. Rhea is not going to charge a fee for using the shopping cart software.

What she may be charging for is use of the word osCommerce. Be that in a URL, a graphic, a textual representation, in meta tags, in source code or whatever.

You are (probably on purpose, going by what I know of you) skirting around the issue by saying "she won't charge for using the software".

Now, as ALL osc sites are REQUIRED under GPL to have the word osCommerce as part of the source code, it is easy to go to the next logical step and have vger require payment for every use of that word. As GPL clearly states that you MAY NOT remove the osCommerce copyrighted text, and vger will clearly be charging people for using the word - then we may deduce that people will stop using the software.

In effect, she is charging for using the software.

or perhaps this is all FUD.

And FUD or not, it's definitely against the principle of Open-ness - and it's difficult to reconcile anyone even attempting to defend vger - which is exactly what you appear to be doing. Sad

[Giovanna]

Save osCommerce From Vger, on Aug 19 2009, 10:52 PM, said:

As it stands Vger and her company should never have attempted to register the name oscommerce because according to United Kingdom trade mark regulations a trade mark does not even have to be registered to be protected, so as long as it is associated with one primary or originating company the trade mark name will be revoked from its registrars and it will be registered on to the original people who used it first.

Dont you think the IPO would not have looked into this. They dont just hand it to anyone.

Also what about the people that registered the OsQuantum name on Sourceforge to stop the oscommerce project using it. Dont you think that with all the herassment that was given on the oscommerce project about them using the oscommerce name, was the reason for her to register it. It wasnt protected, anyone could have taken it. Hindsight is always 20/20 but its something that should have been thought of when multiple offspring from oscommerce were happening.

Have a read of what some peopl have said on the oscommerce project forums. Not very nice.

I have said before and say again.. the legal fight is between Harald and Rhea, in the mean time keep the discussion on a civil level. We dont know what has been going on behind the scenes and i think a little bit of competition is just what it needs to get a up to date working shopping cart without the use of the old bloated code.

[Giovanna]

burt, on Aug 19 2009, 11:03 PM, said:

What she may be charging for is use of the word osCommerce. Be that in a URL, a graphic, a textual representation, in meta tags, in source code or whatever.

You are (probably on purpose, going by what I know of you) skirting around the issue by saying "she won't charge for using the software".

Now, as ALL osc sites are REQUIRED under GPL to have the word osCommerce as part of the source code, it is easy to go to the next logical step and have vger require payment for every use of that word. As GPL clearly states that you MAY NOT remove the osCommerce copyrighted text, and vger will clearly be charging people for using the word - then we may deduce that people will stop using the software.

In effect, she is charging for using the software.

or perhaps this is all FUD.

And FUD or not, it's definitely against the principle of Open-ness - and it's difficult to reconcile anyone even attempting to defend vger - which is exactly what you appear to be doing. Sad

I am not defending anyone. I am just very aware that there is more to this then it looks on the surface. We dont know what is going on behind the scenes. I just feel people are jumping to conclusions and acting like children throwing toys out of their pram when its not even their problem/fight.

Dont forget that if she keeps the registered name, that oscommerce from here may need to be renamed, so we wont have powered by oscommerce in the footer anymore.

Rhea would shoot herself in the foot if she charged for people using the shopping cart software. It would not be a good business decision and she has shown herself to be more clever then that.

Call yourself Club OSc.. Job done.. No oscommerce in the name.

[aligp]

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...Our concern was then, and still is now, that osCommerce should not be allowed to perish from the face of the earth...

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...We applied to register the trademark ...to protect our right to use the name for our project...

What a silly, stupid, self-important woman! a completely "robber's logic": look, if I don't rob you of your property, you'll lose it!

Thank you for the concern but NO, far from "perishing", osCommerce is flourishing: new addons uploaded almost daily. new member registered daily, scores if not 100s q&a posted (even more if taking into account other languages world wide). I wonder if its your "project" thatcis perishing and so you become so desperate to steal from someone else as your own.

The name osCommerce does NOT belong to you so you have nothing to protect. The next thing I guess you would do is probably register your neighbour's car and claim its yours.

Ali

[spooks]

Some of the statements Rhea has made does seem to imply that she does intend to either charge for the use of osCommerce, or restrict its use heavily, that does seem somewhat at odds with her also saying that the regisration is just to prevent any interferance in her use of same.

There is a point that seems to have alluded some, a key point of UK law (to my limited knowledge) is that all parties in any interaction must behave in a reasonable manner.

Is it reasonable to expect those that have used a word/phraase for many years to accept new conditions on use from a third party, just because that party has chosen to use same as their trademark, I think not.

[Giovanna]

aligp, on Aug 19 2009, 11:20 PM, said:

Thank you for the concern but NO, far from "perishing", osCommerce is flourishing: new addons uploaded almost daily. new member registered daily, scores if not 100s q&a posted (even more if taking into account other languages world wide). I wonder if its your "project" thatcis perishing and so you become so desperate to steal from someone else as your own.

Ali

You kidding? v3 has been in development for 3 years and still hasnt got a version ready for production. Dont get me started on v2 which has been going on for too long without a proper finish.

Addons are done by community members, questions on here are answered by community members, I have only seen 1 team member involved on these forums and thats is Jan Zonjee. the proper development of oscommerce has been dead for years!

[aligp]

Another silly minded person - wonder is it the case people from that forum are most likely silly minded or outright stupid - like mind thniks the same?

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registered the OsQuantum name on Sourceforge

are the two comparable? osCommerce is a long establish project with a world wide audiance, whereas the osQ is unfortunately just be delivered on the road side. source forge is not the only place to post a project so no excuse.

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I am not defending anyone

BUT

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stop calling it, (ie, my vger,) a racket!

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I just feel people are jumping to conclusions and acting like children throwing toys out of their pram when its not even their problem/fight

so why oh why oh on earth you be part of the chidren game throwing your toys out here?

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in the mean time keep the discussion on a civil level

rather you say "in the way I like" or steal in a civil way perhaps?.

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We dont know what has been going on behind the scenes

BUT I, Giovanna, knows

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that oscommerce from here may need to be renamed, so we wont have powered by oscommerce in the footer anymore.

I, Giovanna,will be so relieved then.
See, you people here dont even know you are about to lose the name osCommerce and you are wasting time throwing toys.
Finally,

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stop calling it a racket, its not

BUT please

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Call yourself Club OSc.. Job done.. No oscommerce in the name

or, well, you know, burt - pay a fee whatever you, burt, call it.
Thank you, Giovanna, but for nothing!

Ali

[aligp]

Giovanna, on Aug 19 2009, 11:51 PM, said:

You kidding?

ah, a senior member of fewer than 6 months already is a historian of osCommerce knows very well what's behind the sence. I feel shame but I am not moaning because I have so far not donated any money for the project.
and hey! I am running a business and need a cart that suits squarely to my liking but you bunch are so slow its hurting my business!!! (no i am not giving out money I just come here to get somnething free and if I can't then I will be moaning.)

[Giovanna]

Forget it Ali, If you cant discuss something in a normal way. Just sad. And if you really know whats going on behind the scenes, why not tell then.
Its not me throwing anything, some of you on here are calling people names. Not a way to behave a normal discussion. I just have a different opinion, live with it.

[Giovanna]

its you that calls me a senior member. I never implied I am. .

[aligp]

Giovanna, on Aug 20 2009, 12:10 AM, said:

Forget it Ali, If you cant discuss something in a normal way. Just sad. And if you really know whats going on behind the scenes, why not tell then.
Its not me throwing anything, some of you on here are calling people names. Not a way to behave a normal discussion. I just have a different opinion, live with it.

Yep, I know a thief has human right too so must be treated with respect - is this what you are trying to convey? is it stealing a *normal* way of doing business??? frankly, sounds like a racket representative to me, sorry. and thats all for tonight. dont have nightmare!

Ali

Edited by aligp, 19 August 2009, 23:18.

[Save osCommerce From Vger]

Giovanna, on Aug 19 2009, 11:05 PM, said:

Dont you think the IPO would not have looked into this. They dont just hand it to anyone.

They do allow anyone to register any name providing that name is not registered on their database as a registered trade mark. The £200 application fee Vger's company paid does not include a fee for IPO staff to do anything except block trademarks that are already registered.

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Also what about the people that registered the OsQuantum name on Sourceforge to stop the oscommerce project using it. Dont you think that with all the herassment that was given on the oscommerce project about them using the oscommerce name, was the reason for her to register it. It wasnt protected, anyone could have taken it. Hindsight is always 20/20 but its something that should have been thought of when multiple offspring from oscommerce were happening.

I didn't steal the oscommerce name or osQuantits name either, all Im interested in is highlighting the skullduggery involved when non oscommerce forum people start registering oscommerce as a trademark and then try to allude to the incorrect fact they own the name.

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Have a read of what some peopl have said on the oscommerce project forums. Not very nice.

Have you read the things Vger's been saying regarding her antics? Follow the links she's posted on these online ecommerce mags.

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I have said before and say again.. the legal fight is between Harald and Rhea, in the mean time keep the discussion on a civil level. We dont know what has been going on behind the scenes and i think a little bit of competition is just what it needs to get a up to date working shopping cart without the use of the old bloated code.

Most if not all oscommerce people are behind Harald on this one so she has a fight on her hands, she definitely will not win this one because the oscommerce members out-number her forum members.

Edited by Save osCommerce From Vger, 19 August 2009, 23:28.

[Save osCommerce From Vger]

spooks, on Aug 19 2009, 11:38 PM, said:

Some of the statements Rhea has made does seem to imply that she does intend to either charge for the use of osCommerce, or restrict its use heavily, that does seem somewhat at odds with her also saying that the regisration is just to prevent any interferance in her use of same.

There is a point that seems to have alluded some, a key point of UK law (to my limited knowledge) is that all parties in any interaction must behave in a reasonable manner.

Is it reasonable to expect those that have used a word/phraase for many years to accept new conditions on use from a third party, just because that party has chosen to use same as their trademark, I think not.

UK trade marks are simply revoked when one party registers a name knowing it is an unregistered trade mark of another, its just that the original non registered trade mark owners have to lodge a complaint.

Edited by Save osCommerce From Vger, 19 August 2009, 23:30.

[spooks]

Save osCommerce From Vger, on Aug 20 2009, 12:28 AM, said:

UK trade marks are simply revoked when one party registers a name knowing it is an unregistered trade mark of another, its just that the original non registered trade mark owners have to lodge a complaint.

So perhaps the advise to Harald was that he actually had a stronger legal case once registration was complete, therefore waited till now b4 proceeding!! Just my intuition talking!

[tim_o_boy]

Save osCommerce From Vger, on Aug 19 2009, 10:52 PM, said:

As it stands Vger and her company should never have attempted to register the name oscommerce because according to United Kingdom trade mark regulations a trade mark does not even have to be registered to be protected, so as long as it is associated with one primary or originating company the trade mark name will be revoked from its registrars and it will be registered on to the original people who used it first.

This is the most important statement I've read in this thread. I've been through this legal process with my own business in the UK and it's very simple. Companies or organisations can't have their names taken like this and UK law protects them. It's just a shame UK law also allows the registration in the first place.