13 replies to this topic

[tiknam88]

Is it true that customer can claim the money back through paypal even the products been delivered with signature and confrimed address? My friend had this problem with paypal before, customer just claim his money even product has been delivered with proof?? I am new to this stuff need some advices from you guys with experience. Please help.

[Coopco]

tiknam88, on Oct 1 2007, 11:29 PM, said:

Is it true that customer can claim the money back through paypal even the products been delivered with signature and confrimed address? My friend had this problem with paypal before, customer just claim his money even product has been delivered with proof?? I am new to this stuff need some advices from you guys with experience. Please help.

I think that PayPal can do what they like.

[scrambled egg]

tiknam88, on Oct 1 2007, 09:29 PM, said:

Is it true that customer can claim the money back through paypal even the products been delivered with signature and confrimed address? My friend had this problem with paypal before, customer just claim his money even product has been delivered with proof?? I am new to this stuff need some advices from you guys with experience. Please help.

yes, this is true. It has happened to me at least 4 times. The last time was just last week, and the customer simply complained that the product I sent him was not correct (even if I am 100% sure that it was). I asked the customer to return it with my guarantee that he would get a refund, but he did not even bother to reply to my email and of course never returned the product and stopped payment with his credit card issuer (called a chargeback). And Paypal simply made it appear that they were fighting the chargeback, but just took out the money and after about 3 weeks simply said the issue was resolved but never gave me my money back.

Unfortunately, I moved to the Philippines from the U.S. and have not been able to get a credit card merchant account since then (even with my company's EXCELLENT record with my credit card merchants in the U.S.) and have no choice but to continue to use Paypal. But I do hope and pray that someday Paypal goes out of business for whatever reason and that all the employees there lose their jobs, even if it means that I will no longer be able to process any orders. That's how much I hate those guys.

[Coopco]

scrambled egg, on Oct 4 2007, 12:26 AM, said:

yes, this is true. It has happened to me at least 4 times. The last time was just last week, and the customer simply complained that the product I sent him was not correct (even if I am 100% sure that it was). I asked the customer to return it with my guarantee that he would get a refund, but he did not even bother to reply to my email and of course never returned the product and stopped payment with his credit card issuer (called a chargeback). And Paypal simply made it appear that they were fighting the chargeback, but just took out the money and after about 3 weeks simply said the issue was resolved but never gave me my money back.

Unfortunately, I moved to the Philippines from the U.S. and have not been able to get a credit card merchant account since then (even with my company's EXCELLENT record with my credit card merchants in the U.S.) and have no choice but to continue to use Paypal. But I do hope and pray that someday Paypal goes out of business for whatever reason and that all the employees there lose their jobs, even if it means that I will no longer be able to process any orders. That's how much I hate those guys.

Time to start a PatPhill business?

[jhande]

I too have been hearing horror stories regarding PayPal.
Of course now... after I setup a business account with them and activated the module.
Good thing my site it's live yet LOL!

I just recently tried emailing them regarding a Sandbox issue for testing and a few other emails.
It seems Yahoo and PayPal no longer swap messages or nobody is talking to me anymore.

Is there a better alternative besides a merchant account & gateway?

I'm selling plastic models and supplies so my profit margin is going to be small. I'd like to avoid the high setup cost and monthly fees until I start actually selling some products on a regular basis.

[killerbambam]

Oh yes it can happen. But it usually only happens through a dispute with paypal deciding on the outcome (ie refunding the claimee and charing the seller)

I had this once on ebay but the bugger just tried to scam me by taking the product then doing a chargeback. Good thing is his address was legit and i got my money back.

[toyicebear]

A PayPal dispute claim and a chargeback are different things.

A chargeback request is instigated through the customers bank and the outcome is decided by the credit card company and not by PayPal.

But if it goes through PayPal they are responsible for helping you fight it and using the prof you provide in regards to delivery to show that credit card company that the transaction is correct and as such void a chargeback.

A PayPal dispute claim goes directly through PayPal and their online messenger system and if you and the claimee can not reach an agreement there then PayPal will decide the outcome.

Edited by toyicebear, 05 October 2007, 03:05.

[Chris Dunning]

Unfortunately any time you do business with credit cards you can get hit with this. If a customer calls their card company and says "I didn't get my ...." or "it came and was broken," the card company will usually issue the customer an immediate credit. Where does that money come from? Your checking account, of course!

After they've taken the money from your account, they contact you (usually through the mail, which of course is slow) so you can refute the chargeback if you want to. You're guilty until proven innocent. So far I've been able to successfully refute the chargebacks that have come my way (very few, but they've happened). I've talked to other business owners who have told me war stories about dealing with credit card processors - if the customer's bank decides that the customer is right, there is nothing you can do about it.

Basically you sign away your rights when you sign that merchant agreement or agree to the PayPal TOS. Even a credit card slip with the customer's signature and a copy of their driver's license is no guarantee that the money will actually get to your account and stay there. Read over those terms and conditions carefully!

Oh yeah, and a chargeback will cost you some coin - chargeback fees start off at about $25 and go up from there, depending on your agreement.

The only way to avoid chargebacks is to not accept credit cards. Unfortunately that's just not practical.

[web-project]

all orders must be Eligible for Seller Protection Policy:

Quote

Seller Protection Policy: Eligible

When your transaction is eligible for Seller Protection Policy coverage and you follow the remaining criteria set out in the Seller Protection Policy, you won’t be held liable if your buyer files a claim or chargeback indicating that they didn’t receive the item or the payment was not authorised. PayPal will cover the costs associated with these types of claims or chargebacks up to a certain limit.

To be eligible for Seller Protection Policy coverage:

* Sell a tangible item using a Verified Business or Premier account
* Provide timely delivery to a buyer’s Confirmed Address
* Retain reasonable proof of delivery that can be tracked online

For full terms, please see the Seller Protection Policy terms which are accessible via the footer on every page of the https://www.paypal.co.uk website.

[toyicebear]

Quote

all orders must be Eligible for Seller Protection Policy:

This covers most cases but be aware that it will not cover you if the customer claims to have recieved a sub-standard, damaged or wrong item.

[web-project]

Quote

damaged

if damaged during transaction/post, best thing to do claim with post company, as for customers to warn about sort of issue, to contact seller first to resolve the problem instead of PayPal.

[jimseo]

This is a risk for using PayPal.

[DN71]

JImseo, there is a risk of all this happening whether you use paypal or someone else. If paid via credit card there are dozens of ways you, the seller, can get screwed. Its part of running a business unfortunately.

As for PayPal claims... I had my first one after about 120 transactions. UPS' Quantum ship server went down and it took me two days to get a tracking number to a customer. UPS was slow in finding the number because its all housed on my system which died. Anyway, some guy files a dispute then escalates to a claim (1 minute after filing dispute which I think PayPal needs to prevent). The next day I get him his tracking number and even I track it and find he signed for it that morning. I wrote him asking him to back off his claim and wrote paypal. He never responds and paypal places the new info in the resolution center console. Now Paypal says despite him getting it they still can take up to 30 days to decide. Yes it is bull. Plain and simple he got his item...he was just being lazy and not canceling his claim. Spoke to a paypal rep and inquired about the entire process. Here is some info right from the horses mouth you may like to know:

first, they don't just give buyers their money back for a return or stating they received bad merchandise. The paypal claim rep told me they require "3rd party proof" at the buyers expense to state that the product is sub-standard. otherwise they tell the buyer to handle return with seller and if and only if I were to say no way...then paypal could intervene.

Claims are hardly ever decided in favor of the buyer. Only time the buyer does is because the seller does not take the time or read instructions to file proper evidence, etc. They make money of us, the sellers... they make money fo buyers too but not as much. We are thier main revenue source.

They do get involved if customer demands paypal give money back but does not return product to shipper. They contact them and if need be the buyers bank.

So thought this is good info the guy at paypal told me on the phone. Hope he is right.

[eww]

i find the most problematic claims are from visa / mastercard. paypal really can't do much to help you with these as ultimately, it's the card issuer's decision whether to take the money back from you.
for some unknown reason, the seller is usually always the bad guy. tracking # provided or not. (nonsensical.. considering if all of us sellers decided NOT to take their cards for payments, they'd have no revenue)

the majority of paypal claims (that go to the resolution center) i've been able to resolve in my favor.

over the years, i can't think of one claim or chargeback that has been justified and it's bothersome that buyers get away with such basic of fraud attempts. (in my case) it's usually always some soccer mom buying stuff days before the items are needed and then getting crazy when it doesn't arrive next day (i mean, who DOESN'T expect overnight shipping when you pay that $5 ship rate???)